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	<title>Comments on: A Critique of Democracy and Idea of Freedom</title>
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	<description>Because everything has a reason!</description>
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		<title>By: Ashwath</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/government/a-critique-of-democracy-and-idea-of-freedom.html#comment-2026</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashwath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 05:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=2811#comment-2026</guid>
		<description>I dunno who said this....&quot;democracy is dangerous for the masses - It put Hitler, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Nawaz Sharif and above all George Bush (both senior and junior-two times over) into power....!! God help us handle our freedom :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dunno who said this&#8230;.&#8221;democracy is dangerous for the masses &#8211; It put Hitler, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Nawaz Sharif and above all George Bush (both senior and junior-two times over) into power&#8230;.!! God help us handle our freedom <img src='http://www.reasonforliberty.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Zach Bell</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/government/a-critique-of-democracy-and-idea-of-freedom.html#comment-2025</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 15:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=2811#comment-2025</guid>
		<description>@Dyslexic
First past the post may not be exclusive to democracy but in Canada&#039;s case here, it is buttressed quite well by it.  Those who push for PR ar in minority positions and when they come to majority positions, PR suddenly gets dumped behind the stove, never mind put in the back burner.

Take the &quot;New Democratic Party&quot; here in Canada.  The NDP is Canada&#039;s third party (4th if you count th regional separatist Bloc Quebecois party) and pushes for PR and other changes to the electoral system in Canada.  In provinces where the NDP has held power in the provincial legislatures, not a single NDP government has ever pushed for PR in any of the provinces.  They don&#039;t push for it because they know it would mean and end to their shot at majority governments in the provinces.  If the NDP federally ever gained a position tht would allow them to form government, I&#039;m sure PR would become an issue we hear much less about.

In a system that relies on first past the post, PR does not suit those who are accustomed to governing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dyslexic<br />
First past the post may not be exclusive to democracy but in Canada&#8217;s case here, it is buttressed quite well by it.  Those who push for PR ar in minority positions and when they come to majority positions, PR suddenly gets dumped behind the stove, never mind put in the back burner.</p>
<p>Take the &#8220;New Democratic Party&#8221; here in Canada.  The NDP is Canada&#8217;s third party (4th if you count th regional separatist Bloc Quebecois party) and pushes for PR and other changes to the electoral system in Canada.  In provinces where the NDP has held power in the provincial legislatures, not a single NDP government has ever pushed for PR in any of the provinces.  They don&#8217;t push for it because they know it would mean and end to their shot at majority governments in the provinces.  If the NDP federally ever gained a position tht would allow them to form government, I&#8217;m sure PR would become an issue we hear much less about.</p>
<p>In a system that relies on first past the post, PR does not suit those who are accustomed to governing.</p>
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		<title>By: Dsylexic</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/government/a-critique-of-democracy-and-idea-of-freedom.html#comment-2024</link>
		<dc:creator>Dsylexic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=2811#comment-2024</guid>
		<description>the 50% rule is not a problem of democracy,per se. it is a problem of the voting rule. we can have a number of different alternatives to the first past the post rule of voting .what we have currently is just the simplest and probably cheapest implementation of the voting rule. i dont have the weblinks,but a host of changes to make voting more enlightened and less mobocratic have been proposed and debated worldwide. google for voting rule &#039;alternatives to first past the post&#039;  if you want to read more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the 50% rule is not a problem of democracy,per se. it is a problem of the voting rule. we can have a number of different alternatives to the first past the post rule of voting .what we have currently is just the simplest and probably cheapest implementation of the voting rule. i dont have the weblinks,but a host of changes to make voting more enlightened and less mobocratic have been proposed and debated worldwide. google for voting rule &#8216;alternatives to first past the post&#8217;  if you want to read more.</p>
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		<title>By: Liberty Speaks</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/government/a-critique-of-democracy-and-idea-of-freedom.html#comment-2020</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberty Speaks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 17:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=2811#comment-2020</guid>
		<description>@ Zach Bell

Interesting observation, any voting percentage less than 50 should be actually taken as against democracy itself. Even if 51% people vote, it is still against any particular party because total percentage people against will be still high. This is in fact the third irony of democracy which I missed in my original post, good that you pointed it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Zach Bell</p>
<p>Interesting observation, any voting percentage less than 50 should be actually taken as against democracy itself. Even if 51% people vote, it is still against any particular party because total percentage people against will be still high. This is in fact the third irony of democracy which I missed in my original post, good that you pointed it out.</p>
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		<title>By: Liberty Speaks</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/government/a-critique-of-democracy-and-idea-of-freedom.html#comment-2019</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberty Speaks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=2811#comment-2019</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;@ GP
For me Free will do not exists. As every decisions we make in a life are influenced by our social,moral and intellectual conditioning. But i wud definitely like to know your thoughts on this.&lt;/em&gt;

Well I deliberately left that portion, I had in fact mentioned in the post about how free will gets converted to just few choices...and left it at that as I deemed the topic beyond the scope of the article. I agree these conditioning exists, but as you yourself have put a clause of intellectual conditioning, I need not explain the concept of rationality and logic. Yes Mind needs to be trained/conditioned before it can take some decision. I would quote something from Ayn Rand&#039;s lecture who needs philosophy
&quot; without philosophy, you would not be able to deal with concrete, particular, real-life problems. You would be in a position of a new born infant, to whom every object is a unique, unprecedented phenomenon. the difference between his mental state and yours lies in the number of conceptual integration your mind has performed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>@ GP<br />
For me Free will do not exists. As every decisions we make in a life are influenced by our social,moral and intellectual conditioning. But i wud definitely like to know your thoughts on this.</em></p>
<p>Well I deliberately left that portion, I had in fact mentioned in the post about how free will gets converted to just few choices&#8230;and left it at that as I deemed the topic beyond the scope of the article. I agree these conditioning exists, but as you yourself have put a clause of intellectual conditioning, I need not explain the concept of rationality and logic. Yes Mind needs to be trained/conditioned before it can take some decision. I would quote something from Ayn Rand&#8217;s lecture who needs philosophy<br />
&#8221; without philosophy, you would not be able to deal with concrete, particular, real-life problems. You would be in a position of a new born infant, to whom every object is a unique, unprecedented phenomenon. the difference between his mental state and yours lies in the number of conceptual integration your mind has performed.</p>
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		<title>By: Unpretentious Diva</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/government/a-critique-of-democracy-and-idea-of-freedom.html#comment-2018</link>
		<dc:creator>Unpretentious Diva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 15:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=2811#comment-2018</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;For me Free will do not exists. As every decisions we make in a life are influenced by our social,moral and intellectual conditioning. But i wud definitely like to know your thoughts on this.&lt;/em&gt;

Sorry GP, you are not paying us to entertain you. For you, you love slavery and you have no wish to seek for freedom (Nirvana, Moksha).
Not all are like that.
&lt;strong&gt;
We all are borne free, with life and age, some of us becomes slaves, some becomes dominant, and some chooses to be the seeker of freedom, promoting the sense and cause of freedom.&lt;/strong&gt; Now that is Marquis De Sade!

&lt;em&gt;Thats what I was expected as solution&lt;/em&gt;
there&#039;s only single solution. Removal of compulsory taxation, economic liberty, No governmental currency.
Government has no right to loot citizens, and if that unwarranted immoral, unethical right from the government is taken away, things will be just fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>For me Free will do not exists. As every decisions we make in a life are influenced by our social,moral and intellectual conditioning. But i wud definitely like to know your thoughts on this.</em></p>
<p>Sorry GP, you are not paying us to entertain you. For you, you love slavery and you have no wish to seek for freedom (Nirvana, Moksha).<br />
Not all are like that.<br />
<strong><br />
We all are borne free, with life and age, some of us becomes slaves, some becomes dominant, and some chooses to be the seeker of freedom, promoting the sense and cause of freedom.</strong> Now that is Marquis De Sade!</p>
<p><em>Thats what I was expected as solution</em><br />
there&#8217;s only single solution. Removal of compulsory taxation, economic liberty, No governmental currency.<br />
Government has no right to loot citizens, and if that unwarranted immoral, unethical right from the government is taken away, things will be just fine.</p>
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		<title>By: GP</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/government/a-critique-of-democracy-and-idea-of-freedom.html#comment-2021</link>
		<dc:creator>GP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 15:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=2811#comment-2021</guid>
		<description>@Liberty Speaks
Military heads are accountable to their political masters and they in turn to the citizens of the nations they represent. It seldom happens in a democratic set up that a nation goes into war or undertakes military operations without public will in its favor.
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;I think in INDIA , general sentiment is &quot;Attack pak and finish this issue once and for all&quot; but still our wise (?) politicians adopting diplomatic ways to deal with situation.
I think thats enough to show not all democratic govt. influenced by general public sentiments or may be you would like to call INDIA as exception :)   &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
It is so that Iraqi citizens cannot be held responsible for the gulf war but American citizens have to shoulder their part of responsibility for the event.
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;Interesting thought. But you can&#039;t help right? &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
As rational human beings we felt the need for these laws and so it was imposed on ourselves and our society. In addition we reserve the rights to amend or remove the laws that are found to be inappropriate or have out lived its utility.
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;So good to read this : )!&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
If we are to accept this fact then the only solution we are left with is to revitalize and strengthen democracies. Find means to plug the loopholes existing in the system and make it as foolproof and workable as possible.
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;Coool. Thats what I was expected as solution.&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
but what needs to be crucially examined is if the choices that we finally make are rational and a legitimate exercise of free will.
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;For me Free will do not exists. As every decisions we make in a life are influenced by our social,moral and intellectual conditioning. But i wud definitely like to know your thoughts on this.&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
Again Thanks for posting such open-ended and Nice artcile. Keep writing!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Liberty Speaks<br />
Military heads are accountable to their political masters and they in turn to the citizens of the nations they represent. It seldom happens in a democratic set up that a nation goes into war or undertakes military operations without public will in its favor.<br />
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;I think in INDIA , general sentiment is &#8220;Attack pak and finish this issue once and for all&#8221; but still our wise (?) politicians adopting diplomatic ways to deal with situation.<br />
I think thats enough to show not all democratic govt. influenced by general public sentiments or may be you would like to call INDIA as exception <img src='http://www.reasonforliberty.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />    &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br />
It is so that Iraqi citizens cannot be held responsible for the gulf war but American citizens have to shoulder their part of responsibility for the event.<br />
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;Interesting thought. But you can&#8217;t help right? &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br />
As rational human beings we felt the need for these laws and so it was imposed on ourselves and our society. In addition we reserve the rights to amend or remove the laws that are found to be inappropriate or have out lived its utility.<br />
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;So good to read this : )!&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br />
If we are to accept this fact then the only solution we are left with is to revitalize and strengthen democracies. Find means to plug the loopholes existing in the system and make it as foolproof and workable as possible.<br />
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;Coool. Thats what I was expected as solution.&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br />
but what needs to be crucially examined is if the choices that we finally make are rational and a legitimate exercise of free will.<br />
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;For me Free will do not exists. As every decisions we make in a life are influenced by our social,moral and intellectual conditioning. But i wud definitely like to know your thoughts on this.&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br />
Again Thanks for posting such open-ended and Nice artcile. Keep writing!!</p>
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		<title>By: Unpretentious Diva</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/government/a-critique-of-democracy-and-idea-of-freedom.html#comment-2023</link>
		<dc:creator>Unpretentious Diva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 14:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=2811#comment-2023</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It seldom happens in a democratic set up that a nation goes into war or undertakes military operations without public will in its favor.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yes, well that is true, and to take public in favour, whole governmental set-up devotes itself to create illusions of varied kinds.
It is noteworthy that German citizenry chose Hitler democratically. Then he created the Aryan superiority clouds, cultural differences and discrimination, nationalistic emotional issues and socialistic dream-world, to fulfil all illusive ideas, he had to take control of every part of German democratic setup. He had to dissolve citizen freedom and had to exhort the citizenry to support the World War2 by either hook or crook. It is noticeable that German citizenry accepted the war because of the nationalistic shame feeling of loss in the previous World War and defeat. Now not all were supporting Hitler, neither war. Those who were against Hitler were butchered and killed brutally.
Same was the case with India during the 1971 war.
India chose Indira Gandhi democratically and whole population was convinced that a war with Pakistan is necessary, India was going through poverty, inflation and crisis, yet to help Bangladesh was necessary. USSR and India knew it is crucial to make a point against growing American influence in Indian Subcontinent through the help of Pakistan, and Indian population was taken in confidence with the help of evidential Pakistan involvement against Indian activities at Kashmir and Punjab.
Yet that war lead Indians towards the first emergency period, Indians saw complete distortion of every limited freedom they had.
Pakistan government also used government setup to create illusionary environment to get support for wars and military activities many a times.
Obviously, war mongers uses democratic set-up to convince the majority, yet it ends in destruction of even the limited freedom citizen get under the government.
&lt;blockquote&gt;
The first Irony of the political freedom is the very logic of democracy[1] which just seeks a 50% + 1 as the mandatory majority for any democratic resolution to get through.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Only solution to such irony is voluntary taxation. If government is not allowed to loot the citizen forcibly, things will not remain same. Yet, it is difficult to get 50%+1 votes to ensure voluntary taxation.
Now consider democratic election process in India. Almost 60 % of total Indian population are eligible to vote.
Out of which in a general election, average voters who votes is almost 69%.
Thus out of every 100 Indians, 60 can vote, and out of those 100 who can vote, 69 actually votes.
50% of 69/70 is 35. That is, if one political party gets 35%+1 vote of voters, it can rule whole India. Not only that, with the new trend of mixed party governments, and political agreements amongst the party, even 20% vote of vote eligible population is enough to rule over India.

Your idea Hegelian Dialect confers that to stage the false importance and necessity of government, government may create devils too, to make a situation of Good government Vs devils (Terrorism? Wars? Militants? )&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.reasonforliberty.com/reason/why-there-are-wars-terrorists-and-militants.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.reasonforliberty.com/reason/why-there-are-wars-terrorists-and-militants.html
&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It seldom happens in a democratic set up that a nation goes into war or undertakes military operations without public will in its favor.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, well that is true, and to take public in favour, whole governmental set-up devotes itself to create illusions of varied kinds.<br />
It is noteworthy that German citizenry chose Hitler democratically. Then he created the Aryan superiority clouds, cultural differences and discrimination, nationalistic emotional issues and socialistic dream-world, to fulfil all illusive ideas, he had to take control of every part of German democratic setup. He had to dissolve citizen freedom and had to exhort the citizenry to support the World War2 by either hook or crook. It is noticeable that German citizenry accepted the war because of the nationalistic shame feeling of loss in the previous World War and defeat. Now not all were supporting Hitler, neither war. Those who were against Hitler were butchered and killed brutally.<br />
Same was the case with India during the 1971 war.<br />
India chose Indira Gandhi democratically and whole population was convinced that a war with Pakistan is necessary, India was going through poverty, inflation and crisis, yet to help Bangladesh was necessary. USSR and India knew it is crucial to make a point against growing American influence in Indian Subcontinent through the help of Pakistan, and Indian population was taken in confidence with the help of evidential Pakistan involvement against Indian activities at Kashmir and Punjab.<br />
Yet that war lead Indians towards the first emergency period, Indians saw complete distortion of every limited freedom they had.<br />
Pakistan government also used government setup to create illusionary environment to get support for wars and military activities many a times.<br />
Obviously, war mongers uses democratic set-up to convince the majority, yet it ends in destruction of even the limited freedom citizen get under the government.</p>
<blockquote><p>
The first Irony of the political freedom is the very logic of democracy[1] which just seeks a 50% + 1 as the mandatory majority for any democratic resolution to get through.</p></blockquote>
<p>Only solution to such irony is voluntary taxation. If government is not allowed to loot the citizen forcibly, things will not remain same. Yet, it is difficult to get 50%+1 votes to ensure voluntary taxation.<br />
Now consider democratic election process in India. Almost 60 % of total Indian population are eligible to vote.<br />
Out of which in a general election, average voters who votes is almost 69%.<br />
Thus out of every 100 Indians, 60 can vote, and out of those 100 who can vote, 69 actually votes.<br />
50% of 69/70 is 35. That is, if one political party gets 35%+1 vote of voters, it can rule whole India. Not only that, with the new trend of mixed party governments, and political agreements amongst the party, even 20% vote of vote eligible population is enough to rule over India.</p>
<p>Your idea Hegelian Dialect confers that to stage the false importance and necessity of government, government may create devils too, to make a situation of Good government Vs devils (Terrorism? Wars? Militants? )<a href="http://www.reasonforliberty.com/reason/why-there-are-wars-terrorists-and-militants.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.reasonforliberty.com/reason/why-there-are-wars-terrorists-and-militants.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/reason/why-there-are-wars-terrorists-and-militants.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Zach Bell</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/government/a-critique-of-democracy-and-idea-of-freedom.html#comment-2022</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 14:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=2811#comment-2022</guid>
		<description>As usual, wonderful entries.  Democracy is only a tyranny of the majority in theory though.  Often in practise, it is in fact a tyranny of the minority.

Consider an election in a system with three viable political parties for instance.  In Canada, majority governing territory is often considered approximately 40% of the popular vote.  This in and of itself means a majority parliament can be formed with a minority of the popular vote because of the system of election we use.  Consider as well that often times, Canada experiences about 60% voter turn out.  This means a majority of government law makers can be elected by about 30% of the eligible electorate.  Thus in theory, democracy is a majority governing body while in practise, it is in fact a minority governing body.

Even if 100% of the voters in the previous election in Canada had voted for one party, that would have been only 60% of the eligible electorate meaning the 40% who didn&#039;t vote find themselves governed by those elected to power by the 60% who voted.

Simply put...democracy is the tyranny of the majority in theory only and the tyranny of the minority in practise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As usual, wonderful entries.  Democracy is only a tyranny of the majority in theory though.  Often in practise, it is in fact a tyranny of the minority.</p>
<p>Consider an election in a system with three viable political parties for instance.  In Canada, majority governing territory is often considered approximately 40% of the popular vote.  This in and of itself means a majority parliament can be formed with a minority of the popular vote because of the system of election we use.  Consider as well that often times, Canada experiences about 60% voter turn out.  This means a majority of government law makers can be elected by about 30% of the eligible electorate.  Thus in theory, democracy is a majority governing body while in practise, it is in fact a minority governing body.</p>
<p>Even if 100% of the voters in the previous election in Canada had voted for one party, that would have been only 60% of the eligible electorate meaning the 40% who didn&#8217;t vote find themselves governed by those elected to power by the 60% who voted.</p>
<p>Simply put&#8230;democracy is the tyranny of the majority in theory only and the tyranny of the minority in practise.</p>
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