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	<title>Comments on: The Middle Vice!</title>
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		<title>By: Mixed Economy or Interventionism &#124; Reason for Liberty</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-2777</link>
		<dc:creator>Mixed Economy or Interventionism &#124; Reason for Liberty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-2777</guid>
		<description>[...] coercion, Freedom Versus Egalitarianism [&#8617;]What really are Taxes, Reason for Liberty [&#8617;]Laissez-Fairre Free market capitalism is right, communism, socialism, collectivism is wrong, and the..., The Middle Vice! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] coercion, Freedom Versus Egalitarianism [&#8617;]What really are Taxes, Reason for Liberty [&#8617;]Laissez-Fairre Free market capitalism is right, communism, socialism, collectivism is wrong, and the&#8230;, The Middle Vice! [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Why there are Wars, Terrorists and&#160;Militants &#124; Reason for Liberty</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1816</link>
		<dc:creator>Why there are Wars, Terrorists and&#160;Militants &#124; Reason for Liberty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 06:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1816</guid>
		<description>[...] Answer lies in the mysteries of Military Keynesianism.[1] Keynesian economics is what we call as Mixed economics or government controlled economy. According to Keynesian economics[2] the state should encourage economic growth and perk up [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Answer lies in the mysteries of Military Keynesianism.[1] Keynesian economics is what we call as Mixed economics or government controlled economy. According to Keynesian economics[2] the state should encourage economic growth and perk up [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1813</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1813</guid>
		<description>Nice writeup, and nice explanation of the flaws of mixed economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice writeup, and nice explanation of the flaws of mixed economy.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mayuresh</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1815</link>
		<dc:creator>Mayuresh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 05:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1815</guid>
		<description>Regarding Social Issues ( Free education, economy etc.) I am convinced by what you say.
it is true that instead of forcibly making people impotent like Sanjay Gandhi tried to do in India, it is always better to try to be progressive. Killing ourselves through hunger, starvation and socialistic, communistic dictatorship cannot be the solution.

I fully agree with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Social Issues ( Free education, economy etc.) I am convinced by what you say.<br />
it is true that instead of forcibly making people impotent like Sanjay Gandhi tried to do in India, it is always better to try to be progressive. Killing ourselves through hunger, starvation and socialistic, communistic dictatorship cannot be the solution.</p>
<p>I fully agree with you.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mayuresh</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1814</link>
		<dc:creator>Mayuresh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 05:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1814</guid>
		<description>These are not my ideas, neither I supported them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are not my ideas, neither I supported them.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Unpretentious Diva</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1812</link>
		<dc:creator>Unpretentious Diva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1812</guid>
		<description>lol.

Your idea of forcing people to give their hard earned money to teach kids of others itself is against freedom.

Supporting compulsory tax is against freedom because  Taxes are Evil, Taxes means Slavery, Taxes are Robbery. Taxes are Destructive they harm citizen, poor middle class rich, all.&lt;strong&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.reasonforliberty.com/reason/what-really-are-taxes.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.reasonforliberty.com/reason/what-really-are-taxes.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;

if a person puts up an idea of teaching poor orphan kids, and asks for voluntary contribution, it is valid genuine demand. people are free to donate or NOT to donate.
If a person argues that government should force people and loot their money to teach kids of other people, it is loot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol.</p>
<p>Your idea of forcing people to give their hard earned money to teach kids of others itself is against freedom.</p>
<p>Supporting compulsory tax is against freedom because  Taxes are Evil, Taxes means Slavery, Taxes are Robbery. Taxes are Destructive they harm citizen, poor middle class rich, all.<strong><br />
<a href="http://www.reasonforliberty.com/reason/what-really-are-taxes.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/reason/what-really-are-taxes.html</a></strong></p>
<p>if a person puts up an idea of teaching poor orphan kids, and asks for voluntary contribution, it is valid genuine demand. people are free to donate or NOT to donate.<br />
If a person argues that government should force people and loot their money to teach kids of other people, it is loot.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mayuresh</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1811</link>
		<dc:creator>Mayuresh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1811</guid>
		<description>yep, your argument against freedom is just an illusion.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
will you point out a single sentence against freedom?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yep, your argument against freedom is just an illusion.<br />
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,<br />
will you point out a single sentence against freedom?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Unpretentious Diva</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1810</link>
		<dc:creator>Unpretentious Diva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1810</guid>
		<description>yep, your argument against freedom is just an illusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yep, your argument against freedom is just an illusion.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mayuresh</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1809</link>
		<dc:creator>Mayuresh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1809</guid>
		<description>The examples are perfect. Any child can make a perfect circle now.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Perfection is an illusion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The examples are perfect. Any child can make a perfect circle now.<br />
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,<br />
Perfection is an illusion.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Unpretentious Diva</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1807</link>
		<dc:creator>Unpretentious Diva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1807</guid>
		<description>Destination Infinity, Plato concluded that a perfect circle cannot be made because it doesn&#039;t exist in nature.

Any child can make a perfect circle now. But nobody says Capitalism is perfect system. It can though be proved that Capitalism is best amongst the three. It is good, mixed economy is bad, and socialism is ugly.

The examples are perfect, but your rhetoric was wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Destination Infinity, Plato concluded that a perfect circle cannot be made because it doesn&#8217;t exist in nature.</p>
<p>Any child can make a perfect circle now. But nobody says Capitalism is perfect system. It can though be proved that Capitalism is best amongst the three. It is good, mixed economy is bad, and socialism is ugly.</p>
<p>The examples are perfect, but your rhetoric was wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Destination Infinity</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1808</link>
		<dc:creator>Destination Infinity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1808</guid>
		<description>This is the only site, where the comments are the basis for a new post! A good idea, though! 


When I had commented I had also mentioned that the excesses are both good and bad. If you don&#039;t look at the negativities of a system (Like free market capitalism) and just want to impliment it on the basis of your belief, it may not end up being even moderately successful. In fact, you need to analyze what could go wrong with a system like free market capitalism with equal zest as you analyse the failures of the govt.intervention and middle path. If you say that free market capitalism is the best system which does not have any shortcoming&#039;s at all, and people cannot exploit such a system, what ever they do -  it is not an analysis. It is called assumption. 


The examples provided to prove the point, are pathetic. But the arguments were good. The commenters, who have argued against the point in this post, have done enough justice but when replying, I feel that there is a huge degree of imposition of opinions by the author(s). 


Destination Infinity</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the only site, where the comments are the basis for a new post! A good idea, though! </p>
<p>When I had commented I had also mentioned that the excesses are both good and bad. If you don&#8217;t look at the negativities of a system (Like free market capitalism) and just want to impliment it on the basis of your belief, it may not end up being even moderately successful. In fact, you need to analyze what could go wrong with a system like free market capitalism with equal zest as you analyse the failures of the govt.intervention and middle path. If you say that free market capitalism is the best system which does not have any shortcoming&#8217;s at all, and people cannot exploit such a system, what ever they do &#8211;  it is not an analysis. It is called assumption. </p>
<p>The examples provided to prove the point, are pathetic. But the arguments were good. The commenters, who have argued against the point in this post, have done enough justice but when replying, I feel that there is a huge degree of imposition of opinions by the author(s). </p>
<p>Destination Infinity</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: GP</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1804</link>
		<dc:creator>GP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 07:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1804</guid>
		<description>@Unpretentious
1&gt;I think you havent read / seen news about Rahul raj correctly. The police warned him twice or thrice to surrender to which he replied with shooting them back
and he was shot dead in reply. Also, it was a hostage situation in fact police were able to take out passengers safely before he was shot down.
Also what kind of individual freedom he was trying to achieve by holding passengers at gun point..endangering innocent ppl lives?..he was planning to Kill Raj thakre?
thats what u call individual freedom and right to hold gun?..but lets forget abt such maniacs they don&#039;t really worth  for such discussion.
2&gt;Your theory of Satyam , AIG scams have had not happened if there were no restrictions or regulatory controls from governement is really childish.
In fact its result of lack of regulatory controls on undue risks being taken by their top bosses and Mgmt. for higher revenues also they failed to perceive the ill-effects of their decisions
in longer term. See I do agree there are certain flaws in mix economy but that doesn&#039;t mean its complete failure.
We need to come up with plan,ideas and new rules which can prevent these co-orporate flaws and inherent loop holes in
certain laws and regulations which promotes such kind of scams and frauds.Now if you completely decided that flaws in mix economy cannnot be corrected and &quot;free market capitalistic&quot; societies
( I won&#039;t term it as country coz for u that is again a collectivist term) can only be the perfect solution to all the current issues and problems
then lets start thinking from your point of view -
@Writers
Those who are supporters of &quot;Free Market Capitalism&quot; can you plz answer my few queries?
1&gt;What will be the role of government in &quot;free Market Capitalistic&quot; society? or there won&#039;t be any system like government in your theory?
2&gt;Are there any systems in your new theory which are controlled by government alone and haven&#039;t been subjected to privatisation?
3&gt; I am yet to get an answer to my earlier posts which I am still expecting one of you to reply on -
I think if I start thinking from ur point of view then I guess as FM( which i am not) I guess will look at below things
1&gt; wht is total tax collection from employees of AIG/Satyam and those who are not employees of AIG but their services/employement indirectly depends on AIG business
2&gt;I will only grant that much collected tax as bailout package to AIG coz I respect their individual rights of getting that tax money back for their own good (aftrall thats wht ppl expect from govt. i.e. to make use of tax money for their(citizens) wellfare ..isn’t it?
3&gt; I will finally publish these facts and figures so that ppl like =you won’t accuse me that - I am misusing the other tax collectors money.
Coz as a govt. I am justing giving ppl their money back in case of their crisis and that too with full facts and figures
Same will be applied for the decision of &quot;Free education to public and private schools&quot;
Do u think its viable solution to address your complaints in current mix economy? ...or there are any other complaints?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Unpretentious<br />
1&gt;I think you havent read / seen news about Rahul raj correctly. The police warned him twice or thrice to surrender to which he replied with shooting them back<br />
and he was shot dead in reply. Also, it was a hostage situation in fact police were able to take out passengers safely before he was shot down.<br />
Also what kind of individual freedom he was trying to achieve by holding passengers at gun point..endangering innocent ppl lives?..he was planning to Kill Raj thakre?<br />
thats what u call individual freedom and right to hold gun?..but lets forget abt such maniacs they don&#8217;t really worth  for such discussion.<br />
2&gt;Your theory of Satyam , AIG scams have had not happened if there were no restrictions or regulatory controls from governement is really childish.<br />
In fact its result of lack of regulatory controls on undue risks being taken by their top bosses and Mgmt. for higher revenues also they failed to perceive the ill-effects of their decisions<br />
in longer term. See I do agree there are certain flaws in mix economy but that doesn&#8217;t mean its complete failure.<br />
We need to come up with plan,ideas and new rules which can prevent these co-orporate flaws and inherent loop holes in<br />
certain laws and regulations which promotes such kind of scams and frauds.Now if you completely decided that flaws in mix economy cannnot be corrected and &#8220;free market capitalistic&#8221; societies<br />
( I won&#8217;t term it as country coz for u that is again a collectivist term) can only be the perfect solution to all the current issues and problems<br />
then lets start thinking from your point of view -<br />
@Writers<br />
Those who are supporters of &#8220;Free Market Capitalism&#8221; can you plz answer my few queries?<br />
1&gt;What will be the role of government in &#8220;free Market Capitalistic&#8221; society? or there won&#8217;t be any system like government in your theory?<br />
2&gt;Are there any systems in your new theory which are controlled by government alone and haven&#8217;t been subjected to privatisation?<br />
3&gt; I am yet to get an answer to my earlier posts which I am still expecting one of you to reply on -<br />
I think if I start thinking from ur point of view then I guess as FM( which i am not) I guess will look at below things<br />
1&gt; wht is total tax collection from employees of AIG/Satyam and those who are not employees of AIG but their services/employement indirectly depends on AIG business<br />
2&gt;I will only grant that much collected tax as bailout package to AIG coz I respect their individual rights of getting that tax money back for their own good (aftrall thats wht ppl expect from govt. i.e. to make use of tax money for their(citizens) wellfare ..isn’t it?<br />
3&gt; I will finally publish these facts and figures so that ppl like =you won’t accuse me that &#8211; I am misusing the other tax collectors money.<br />
Coz as a govt. I am justing giving ppl their money back in case of their crisis and that too with full facts and figures<br />
Same will be applied for the decision of &#8220;Free education to public and private schools&#8221;<br />
Do u think its viable solution to address your complaints in current mix economy? &#8230;or there are any other complaints?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: deadmanoncampus</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1806</link>
		<dc:creator>deadmanoncampus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1806</guid>
		<description>GP,

You have said that Socialism has helped China achieved a high GDP growth rate.In the first

place,China is not a socialistic country.Socialism is a society in which all the property is

owned by the Government.Is that the case? In the second place,GDP statistics is not a

measure of the wealth of a nation.The very term GDP is wrong.One can&#039;t measure the wealth of

a nation in any such manner.The attempts to measure wealth in that manner is childhish

dilettantism.It is obvious that if a good is available in excess,it&#039;s price come down and

would approach zero if it is abundantltly available as air.Wouldn;t the National Income get

to zero if all goods are easily available as air? In China,a lot many websites which promote

individual liberty are banned including that of Lysander Spooner.At whose expense is

children given necessary training in the childhood? Shouldn&#039;t such acts by Government mean

that some children whom the government decides to be geniuses are given special training at

the expense of other children who might be smarter in other regards? Is it fair to tax some

for the benefit of others? If such training benefits the society,why don&#039;t people pay for it

voluntarily? Don&#039;t be ridiculous. No one is of the opinion that there shouldn&#039;t be

rules.There is no need for a government to impose rules and regulations.In an anarcho

Capitalist society,there would be private courts and defense agencies.Market is self

regulating.&quot;Freedom come is responsibility&quot; if an oft-repeated bromide.We don&#039;t have any

responsibilities other than to respect the personal freedom of others.Why should we care

about the national interest? A nation or society is only a collection of individuals.To say

that national interest takes precedence over the interests of individuals,it would mean that

the rights of some individuals take precedence over the rights of others.Nothig can be more

evil or immoral than that.Communism is bad no matter how people implement it.A communist society can&#039;t economically calculate due to its lack of pricing mechanism and profit motive.Property can&#039;t nationalized without reducing incentives to produce and initiating force against people, and initiating force is wrong.It is stupid to think that Government can regulate the market.Market is a very complex process.It is self regulating.If some people commit crimes they will be punished by private courts and defense agencies.There is no need for a government to do that.If people are corrupt and they need to be regulated,then it would mean that government employees too are corrupt and they can&#039;t be trusted to regulate people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GP,</p>
<p>You have said that Socialism has helped China achieved a high GDP growth rate.In the first</p>
<p>place,China is not a socialistic country.Socialism is a society in which all the property is</p>
<p>owned by the Government.Is that the case? In the second place,GDP statistics is not a</p>
<p>measure of the wealth of a nation.The very term GDP is wrong.One can&#8217;t measure the wealth of</p>
<p>a nation in any such manner.The attempts to measure wealth in that manner is childhish</p>
<p>dilettantism.It is obvious that if a good is available in excess,it&#8217;s price come down and</p>
<p>would approach zero if it is abundantltly available as air.Wouldn;t the National Income get</p>
<p>to zero if all goods are easily available as air? In China,a lot many websites which promote</p>
<p>individual liberty are banned including that of Lysander Spooner.At whose expense is</p>
<p>children given necessary training in the childhood? Shouldn&#8217;t such acts by Government mean</p>
<p>that some children whom the government decides to be geniuses are given special training at</p>
<p>the expense of other children who might be smarter in other regards? Is it fair to tax some</p>
<p>for the benefit of others? If such training benefits the society,why don&#8217;t people pay for it</p>
<p>voluntarily? Don&#8217;t be ridiculous. No one is of the opinion that there shouldn&#8217;t be</p>
<p>rules.There is no need for a government to impose rules and regulations.In an anarcho</p>
<p>Capitalist society,there would be private courts and defense agencies.Market is self</p>
<p>regulating.&#8221;Freedom come is responsibility&#8221; if an oft-repeated bromide.We don&#8217;t have any</p>
<p>responsibilities other than to respect the personal freedom of others.Why should we care</p>
<p>about the national interest? A nation or society is only a collection of individuals.To say</p>
<p>that national interest takes precedence over the interests of individuals,it would mean that</p>
<p>the rights of some individuals take precedence over the rights of others.Nothig can be more</p>
<p>evil or immoral than that.Communism is bad no matter how people implement it.A communist society can&#8217;t economically calculate due to its lack of pricing mechanism and profit motive.Property can&#8217;t nationalized without reducing incentives to produce and initiating force against people, and initiating force is wrong.It is stupid to think that Government can regulate the market.Market is a very complex process.It is self regulating.If some people commit crimes they will be punished by private courts and defense agencies.There is no need for a government to do that.If people are corrupt and they need to be regulated,then it would mean that government employees too are corrupt and they can&#8217;t be trusted to regulate people.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Vaibhav</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1805</link>
		<dc:creator>Vaibhav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1805</guid>
		<description>Libertarianism is a very wide term with different schools of thought as you can see in the wikipedia link as well. It can accomodate a lot of principles in its gamut and differences of opinion exist amonst libertarians as well. Same goes with liberalism. The meaning and importance given to individual freedom is also different with different people. I would like to tell you that even I am against government intervention in most areas. And the main essence of libertarianism is opposition to interventionism, though the extent of opposition can be different with different people.

In fact classical liberalism and libertarianism are similar (though not exactly the same). But if we go deeper, you are correct. I am more of a classical liberal than libertarian (as I do support intervention in some areas). Now some of the people that you mentioned like Milton Friedman and Mises, were they more of libertarians or classical liberals? You would know that Mises wasn&#039;t opposed to compulsory taxation in the strictest form. He was in fact even in favour of conscription (I am personally against it) which I believe would be against libertarian principles. It is very difficult to demarcate here is where liberalism ends and libertarianism begins. Though personally as you said, I don&#039;t favour total libertarianism which will push me towards liberalism. In fact you had commented in my blog about Adam Smith. I agree with him on many places where he sees government intervention is required.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Libertarianism is a very wide term with different schools of thought as you can see in the wikipedia link as well. It can accomodate a lot of principles in its gamut and differences of opinion exist amonst libertarians as well. Same goes with liberalism. The meaning and importance given to individual freedom is also different with different people. I would like to tell you that even I am against government intervention in most areas. And the main essence of libertarianism is opposition to interventionism, though the extent of opposition can be different with different people.</p>
<p>In fact classical liberalism and libertarianism are similar (though not exactly the same). But if we go deeper, you are correct. I am more of a classical liberal than libertarian (as I do support intervention in some areas). Now some of the people that you mentioned like Milton Friedman and Mises, were they more of libertarians or classical liberals? You would know that Mises wasn&#8217;t opposed to compulsory taxation in the strictest form. He was in fact even in favour of conscription (I am personally against it) which I believe would be against libertarian principles. It is very difficult to demarcate here is where liberalism ends and libertarianism begins. Though personally as you said, I don&#8217;t favour total libertarianism which will push me towards liberalism. In fact you had commented in my blog about Adam Smith. I agree with him on many places where he sees government intervention is required.</p>
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		<title>By: Unpretentious Diva</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1803</link>
		<dc:creator>Unpretentious Diva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:25:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1803</guid>
		<description>GP, we can prove that if controls and regulations are removed, than issues like Satyam, Lehman brothers etc won&#039;t arise.

These frauds and misgivings are because interventionism by government, licensing, control of currency and central banks, and all other economic sector issues.

There is a article about economic meltdown, if you read it, you will understand what i am talking of.

The reality of nature is, as much as one follows freedom, he gets natural. You should try to understand it. Forcible regulations always causes corruption.

Free flowing ricer is always pure, stagnant water gets putrified and impure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GP, we can prove that if controls and regulations are removed, than issues like Satyam, Lehman brothers etc won&#8217;t arise.</p>
<p>These frauds and misgivings are because interventionism by government, licensing, control of currency and central banks, and all other economic sector issues.</p>
<p>There is a article about economic meltdown, if you read it, you will understand what i am talking of.</p>
<p>The reality of nature is, as much as one follows freedom, he gets natural. You should try to understand it. Forcible regulations always causes corruption.</p>
<p>Free flowing ricer is always pure, stagnant water gets putrified and impure.</p>
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		<title>By: GP</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1798</link>
		<dc:creator>GP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1798</guid>
		<description>You say mixed economy is good, and than you name Lehman AIG etc., they are the failures of Mixed economy.,
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;Again you are mistaken here. I never said mixed economy is good. All I am saying is - U need to keep tigher controls and regulations  so that coorporates won&#039;t take undue advantage of freedom granted to them &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;

These recession and inflation comes through interventionism of government.

Failure of lehman etc is not that big issue BAIL OUT of those corrupt comapnies by GOVERNMENT through tax payers money is BIGGER fraud.
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;U forgot that Lehman had declared themselves bakrupt so no bail out package for Lehman bros.
If u talk about AIG(American insurance Group) then its bailout was not just &quot;take this money to save ur ass&quot;, they had to follow US governments laws and regulations too from nowonwards.

See the basic funda of bailout package is - to save the jobs of lots of ppl who are directly or indirectly related with that organisation.
AIG is one of the biggest and oldest insurance gruop in US on which lots of ppl are dependenty.

now tell me from the bottom of your heart..whts wrong if govt. prevented mass unemployement and its ripple ill-effects on economy
from collected money? ..don&#039;t u think bcoz of this decision - many more individuals are benefitted in terms of keeping the employement?

were they not individuals who paid the taxes to US govt. and expect govt. to make use of that tax money to give them new life?

I think if I start thinking from ur point of view then I guess as FM( which i am not) I guess I need to look at below things

1&gt; wht is total tax collection from employees of AIG and those who are not employees of AIG but their services/employement indirectly depends on AIG business
2&gt;I will only grant that much collected tax as bailout package to AIG coz I respect their individual rights of getting that tax money back for their own good (aftrall thats wht ppl expect from govt. i.e. to make use of tax money for their(citizens) wellfare ..isn&#039;t it?

3&gt; I will finally publish these facts and figures so that ppl like =you won&#039;t accuse me that - I am misusing the other tax collectors money.

Do u think its viable solution in such scenario?

I think govt. shud really apply this approach to keep ppl like u from stop blaming govt. for their decision of usage of tax collectors money.

But sadly, our or US govt. looked at tax collection as collected money from citizens of country and not as individuals money.&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You say mixed economy is good, and than you name Lehman AIG etc., they are the failures of Mixed economy.,<br />
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;Again you are mistaken here. I never said mixed economy is good. All I am saying is &#8211; U need to keep tigher controls and regulations  so that coorporates won&#8217;t take undue advantage of freedom granted to them &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</p>
<p>These recession and inflation comes through interventionism of government.</p>
<p>Failure of lehman etc is not that big issue BAIL OUT of those corrupt comapnies by GOVERNMENT through tax payers money is BIGGER fraud.<br />
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;U forgot that Lehman had declared themselves bakrupt so no bail out package for Lehman bros.<br />
If u talk about AIG(American insurance Group) then its bailout was not just &#8220;take this money to save ur ass&#8221;, they had to follow US governments laws and regulations too from nowonwards.</p>
<p>See the basic funda of bailout package is &#8211; to save the jobs of lots of ppl who are directly or indirectly related with that organisation.<br />
AIG is one of the biggest and oldest insurance gruop in US on which lots of ppl are dependenty.</p>
<p>now tell me from the bottom of your heart..whts wrong if govt. prevented mass unemployement and its ripple ill-effects on economy<br />
from collected money? ..don&#8217;t u think bcoz of this decision &#8211; many more individuals are benefitted in terms of keeping the employement?</p>
<p>were they not individuals who paid the taxes to US govt. and expect govt. to make use of that tax money to give them new life?</p>
<p>I think if I start thinking from ur point of view then I guess as FM( which i am not) I guess I need to look at below things</p>
<p>1&gt; wht is total tax collection from employees of AIG and those who are not employees of AIG but their services/employement indirectly depends on AIG business<br />
2&gt;I will only grant that much collected tax as bailout package to AIG coz I respect their individual rights of getting that tax money back for their own good (aftrall thats wht ppl expect from govt. i.e. to make use of tax money for their(citizens) wellfare ..isn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>3&gt; I will finally publish these facts and figures so that ppl like =you won&#8217;t accuse me that &#8211; I am misusing the other tax collectors money.</p>
<p>Do u think its viable solution in such scenario?</p>
<p>I think govt. shud really apply this approach to keep ppl like u from stop blaming govt. for their decision of usage of tax collectors money.</p>
<p>But sadly, our or US govt. looked at tax collection as collected money from citizens of country and not as individuals money.&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</p>
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		<title>By: Unpretentious Diva</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1800</link>
		<dc:creator>Unpretentious Diva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1800</guid>
		<description>Ok GP,
I understand your point of view, and I appreciate it too.

The thing is you are too prejudiced against freedom.

See it is true that NO man be it Hitler or Thackrey can be without any goodness in them.
it is just true that even they had some goodness,

And yes we cannot ignore the good of them. Yet we cannot ignore the wrong too.

And the wrong was their collectivist stand. If grouping up people on name of Mumbaikars Marathis etc and causing fights between madrasis and marathis or Mumbaikars and Biharis is not wrong, than what is wrong?

If killing of Rahul mahajan is not wrong than what is it?

If Gujrat riots were not wrong, if Opening of Babri Masjid by Rajeev gandhi and than Demolition of it by Advani was not wrong than what was it?

people got killed GP, it was crime against humanity.

One should understand the Importance of Individual existence, you or me cannot start killing someone just because he is Muslim or hindu should we?

if you agree that yes we should not, then it shows that you accept that crowd mentality is NOT good, and it seldom causes havoc, we always suffered from it in some way or other.

You also agree that welfare states are a failure (for the same cause of crowd mentality)

You also agree that India is mixed economy state and China is suffering.

You say India should be like china, what you forget that since the economic recession in America, China is also starving.

What you ignore is America is also socialist and not a free-country.
So what you do not agree for?

Do you not agree for the fact that the crime of one should not be exsposed on others?

You say mixed economy is good, and than you name Lehman AIG etc., they are the failures of Mixed economy.,

America is as Mixed economy as China or India is.

Yet American economy is more market oriented than India or China, hence America is richest and most prosperous. China is more free and capitalist than India hence china is richer than India.

The difference between China India and America is, China is closed exploited community, they have attained economic freedom to some extent, more than Indian less than American, but their social freedom is ZERO.

Neither America, nor India nor China are freee all of them are trying to be free.

Now about competition, it is a known fact that more free a country becomes, more rich it gets.

India is example, we were poor at verge of bankruptcy in 1992 we adopted liberalization, now we are getting richer.

These recession and inflation comes through interventionism of government.

Failure of lehman etc is not that big issue BAIL OUT of those corrupt comapnies by GOVERNMENT through tax payers money is BIGGER fraud.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok GP,<br />
I understand your point of view, and I appreciate it too.</p>
<p>The thing is you are too prejudiced against freedom.</p>
<p>See it is true that NO man be it Hitler or Thackrey can be without any goodness in them.<br />
it is just true that even they had some goodness,</p>
<p>And yes we cannot ignore the good of them. Yet we cannot ignore the wrong too.</p>
<p>And the wrong was their collectivist stand. If grouping up people on name of Mumbaikars Marathis etc and causing fights between madrasis and marathis or Mumbaikars and Biharis is not wrong, than what is wrong?</p>
<p>If killing of Rahul mahajan is not wrong than what is it?</p>
<p>If Gujrat riots were not wrong, if Opening of Babri Masjid by Rajeev gandhi and than Demolition of it by Advani was not wrong than what was it?</p>
<p>people got killed GP, it was crime against humanity.</p>
<p>One should understand the Importance of Individual existence, you or me cannot start killing someone just because he is Muslim or hindu should we?</p>
<p>if you agree that yes we should not, then it shows that you accept that crowd mentality is NOT good, and it seldom causes havoc, we always suffered from it in some way or other.</p>
<p>You also agree that welfare states are a failure (for the same cause of crowd mentality)</p>
<p>You also agree that India is mixed economy state and China is suffering.</p>
<p>You say India should be like china, what you forget that since the economic recession in America, China is also starving.</p>
<p>What you ignore is America is also socialist and not a free-country.<br />
So what you do not agree for?</p>
<p>Do you not agree for the fact that the crime of one should not be exsposed on others?</p>
<p>You say mixed economy is good, and than you name Lehman AIG etc., they are the failures of Mixed economy.,</p>
<p>America is as Mixed economy as China or India is.</p>
<p>Yet American economy is more market oriented than India or China, hence America is richest and most prosperous. China is more free and capitalist than India hence china is richer than India.</p>
<p>The difference between China India and America is, China is closed exploited community, they have attained economic freedom to some extent, more than Indian less than American, but their social freedom is ZERO.</p>
<p>Neither America, nor India nor China are freee all of them are trying to be free.</p>
<p>Now about competition, it is a known fact that more free a country becomes, more rich it gets.</p>
<p>India is example, we were poor at verge of bankruptcy in 1992 we adopted liberalization, now we are getting richer.</p>
<p>These recession and inflation comes through interventionism of government.</p>
<p>Failure of lehman etc is not that big issue BAIL OUT of those corrupt comapnies by GOVERNMENT through tax payers money is BIGGER fraud.</p>
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		<title>By: Unpretentious Diva</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1802</link>
		<dc:creator>Unpretentious Diva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1802</guid>
		<description>Any law which is not based on reason can not do any good.
About Rahul Mahajna, he did not keep hostage of anyone. in the bus, it was he and other police man only when he was killed. you are wrong about it.

But it doesn;t matter, owning a gun cannot be a crime. If honest citizen cannot hold a safety gun than who will save him from criminals? Noone.

Freedom comes with responsibility and government is NOT needed for understanding that responsibility, if allow freedom, person understand it better.

Interventionism of government makes freedom free without any responsibility for some.

its about loot of Individual and his exploitation. He can surely live honestly and peacefully in a free market, but government doesn&#039;t allow him.

About your ideas of competing America China etc, its useless, we cannot divide human with boundaries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any law which is not based on reason can not do any good.<br />
About Rahul Mahajna, he did not keep hostage of anyone. in the bus, it was he and other police man only when he was killed. you are wrong about it.</p>
<p>But it doesn;t matter, owning a gun cannot be a crime. If honest citizen cannot hold a safety gun than who will save him from criminals? Noone.</p>
<p>Freedom comes with responsibility and government is NOT needed for understanding that responsibility, if allow freedom, person understand it better.</p>
<p>Interventionism of government makes freedom free without any responsibility for some.</p>
<p>its about loot of Individual and his exploitation. He can surely live honestly and peacefully in a free market, but government doesn&#8217;t allow him.</p>
<p>About your ideas of competing America China etc, its useless, we cannot divide human with boundaries.</p>
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		<title>By: GP</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1801</link>
		<dc:creator>GP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1801</guid>
		<description>Mumbaikars Marathis etc and causing fights between madrasis and marathis or Mumbaikars and Biharis is not wrong, than what is wrong?

If killing of Rahul mahajan is not wrong than what is it?

If Gujrat riots were not wrong, if Opening of Babri Masjid by Rajeev gandhi and than Demolition of it by Advani was not wrong than what was it?

people got killed GP, it was crime against humanity.

&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;I truely respect individual freedom but that doesn&#039;t mean people shud not follow laws and rules which are meant for welfare of everyone.

As I earlier mentioned so called fights between Maharshtrians and North indians are the result of hatred spread by biased media.
If u talk about killing of Rahul Mahajan - then it wasn&#039;t a cold blooded mruder but
the result of unfortunate circumstances created by himself by taking law and order in hands by endangering public lives.
Now, if same guy had killed many ppl in bus then ppl wud have cried about inefficiency of Mumbai police in handling the situation and maintaining the peace.
Alos, wht was he thinking  holding passengers at gun point in bus? .......the point is - govt rules and regulations are means for saftey of its citizens ..u cant defy then and cry foul
when govt. compell u to follow them in the name of freedom???. I respect individual freedom but always remember freedom comes with responsibilities.&gt;&gt;&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mumbaikars Marathis etc and causing fights between madrasis and marathis or Mumbaikars and Biharis is not wrong, than what is wrong?</p>
<p>If killing of Rahul mahajan is not wrong than what is it?</p>
<p>If Gujrat riots were not wrong, if Opening of Babri Masjid by Rajeev gandhi and than Demolition of it by Advani was not wrong than what was it?</p>
<p>people got killed GP, it was crime against humanity.</p>
<p>&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;I truely respect individual freedom but that doesn&#8217;t mean people shud not follow laws and rules which are meant for welfare of everyone.</p>
<p>As I earlier mentioned so called fights between Maharshtrians and North indians are the result of hatred spread by biased media.<br />
If u talk about killing of Rahul Mahajan &#8211; then it wasn&#8217;t a cold blooded mruder but<br />
the result of unfortunate circumstances created by himself by taking law and order in hands by endangering public lives.<br />
Now, if same guy had killed many ppl in bus then ppl wud have cried about inefficiency of Mumbai police in handling the situation and maintaining the peace.<br />
Alos, wht was he thinking  holding passengers at gun point in bus? &#8230;&#8230;.the point is &#8211; govt rules and regulations are means for saftey of its citizens ..u cant defy then and cry foul<br />
when govt. compell u to follow them in the name of freedom???. I respect individual freedom but always remember freedom comes with responsibilities.&gt;&gt;&gt;</p>
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		<title>By: GP</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/ethics/the-middle-vice.html#comment-1799</link>
		<dc:creator>GP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 13:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1791#comment-1799</guid>
		<description>About making India more competent than america, the only way is Free-Market Capitalism.
 About true socialism, you know nothing about socialism.
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;Free Market Capitalism will be disaster without proper regulations and control  of government. If u think govt. is corrupt and never promots free market capitalism then u need to come up with parallel system which can successfully take over the role of government&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About making India more competent than america, the only way is Free-Market Capitalism.<br />
 About true socialism, you know nothing about socialism.<br />
&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;Free Market Capitalism will be disaster without proper regulations and control  of government. If u think govt. is corrupt and never promots free market capitalism then u need to come up with parallel system which can successfully take over the role of government&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</p>
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