anti reservationists facts are somewhat biased or lame.
they sometimes try to be pro-economic condition reservations while they all times try to support merit.
if they are sole caretakers of merit then i ask them wouldnt poor quota dissolve the merit ?

and are there not other quotas like defence quota, handicap quota, manaagemnt quota, state quota , NRI quota to have debate about merit ?

management quota is purely rich quota then why havent organizations like YFE till this date havent organized any protest against it or tried to have a debate on it ?
till the isolation of so called dalits isnt abolished in this country , there would always be clashes on benefits from the govt from both sides.
if 20 indians in australia get attacked there, whole india and media dominated by upper caste ppl stands up against the racism
but when we know that every week 4-5 dalits get killed in the country on the name of caste, no one even care to bother , even media dominated by upper castes try to close off their eyes.
is it not a racist country we are living in ?
is racism inhuman or the reservations ?

reservationfacts.blogspot.com
indiyouth blogger´s last blog ..The well imbibed Casteism in our social structure needs to be squeezed

but in exchange you have to pay something.. i think its the same with taxes … u pay something for getting certain services

Do you have a cell phone? I am sure you do. Tell me how does the cell phone bill payment model works for you.
You use the phone, and as much as you use the phone, You receive a bill for your cell phone usage and then you go to the office of cell phone company and pay them the money precisely for the services you used. If you use less cell phone, you pay less money to them, if you use more then you pay them more.
 OR

You submit your income statement to the Cell phone company, and then they look how much you earned last year, then the company charges you a percent of your income from you, claiming that poor people also need to use cell phones and forces you to pay for their cell phone usage. It doesn’t matter how much you use the cell phone, or how less. You must pay Rs 5,000/- if you earn higher income for same cell phone usage, and you pay only Rs 100/- or nothing in many cases if your income is lower or none, for the same cell phone usage. If you refuse to pay cell phone company whether you use it or not, they come down to your house with their guns, throw you in a patty wagon and drop you in jail for 3-4 years.
So tell me which of the above more closely reflect the service-fee model private companies use?
Do you understand the problem with the govt’s taxation model and how its a big insult to justice if you call the taxes as “JUST”.

most banks in india have a ceiling of 7.5 lakhs for an ug course within india.

That’s their risk management model. With more freeing up of tax payer’s money, there will be more players providing educational loans.
Plus don’t tie all the factors as is, and just change one factor when you are talking about such a situation.
For example you are saying that without publicly funded education, poor kids will be able to have only half the money through loan. Now what you have done is, just presumed that all the banks remain the same, the market remains the same, the fees of private colleges will remain the same.
That’s not true, when there are no public schools, the market will invest heavily in private schools to make profit since now they are highly profitable. The best way to make maximum money is to provide quality education at cheap prices.
Most colleges will become highly specialized in providing you only the most relevant education, if you wanna make a career in Comp Sci, you will not have to go through the pains of studying irrelevant Physics Chem, and Maths(I know how much pain I took in first year of my college).

his dreams are undone if all colleges are privatized

Are you saying that no private player is willing to pay for his education? Does that mean no private player is willing to back his money on this guy because they don’t think they can get this money back?
If true then your presumption that X is an intelligent guy is wrong. If the money spent on him cannot be get back with profit, there is no point in wasting money on him or unless he puts a collateral.

x’s dad might also very well be a regular guy who did not have enough brains and /or made wrong choices and has now ended up bein more or less a loser who’s just making ends meet.

Good then x’s dad is just like me, not so smart, so why the hell I am being punished for not being as intelligent as X, by making my dad pay for X’s education.

if i am in a position to employ somebody , it’ll be keeping in mind my ulterior benefits.

You see I don’t mind you taking that approach, all I was saying that you can’t force a guy to take people based on caste, creed, kins, or MERIT.

it was against the vote bank politics of these autocratic politicians.

What we are just trying to point out here is, that the movement was definitely against giving all the taxpayers money to lower caste kids, but then that movement stood for giving all that money to the smart kids.
Its like saying that we will feed our athletes by taking away the food from not-so-athletic citizens.

just please make sure that a talented guy doesn’t lose out cos he’s poor.

Look dude, as much as you have been made to think to sympathize with the talented poor guy over and over and over by various bollywood movies, you tell me if its right to rob money from one rich dad whose kid is stupid, to spend on a talented kid whose dad is poor.

but if nobody pays them the govt has no money . then who will make the roads , who’ll protect our country against foreign attacks, who’ll pay for the water you use and who cleans up the vat in your area ?

I will pay the person or company which provides me water for whatever water I use. Just like I pay my cellphone bills. I will pay the road company which builds the road when I use the road, just like I pay for the rent in a house if I live in it. I will pay the person or company which cleans up the vat[sic] in my area, whenever they clean it and if I ask them to clean it.

private individuals managing roads and defence … ok … but in exchange you have to pay something.. i think its the same with taxes … u pay something for getting certain services .. atleast that seems to be the basic idea behind taxation.

please don’t lose patience with me …

true they must. absolutely just. but then if the privately own colleges have exorbitant fees the banks will also think twice. most banks in india have a ceiling of 7.5 lakhs for an ug course within india. that too you get that much after you present the bank with both a gauranter and collateral security of half that much amount. so with the kind of dad that x has, his dreams are undone if all colleges are privatised , and theres no check on the fees they demand. so i think i’ve made my point farely clear … privatisation is perfect as long as this problem is taken care of.

But didn’t you say that x’s dad is a lousy alcoholic?

this is a possibility but i never said that. x’s dad might also very well be a regular guy who did not have enough brains and /or made wrong choices and has now ended up bein more or less a loser who’s just making ends meet.

I don’t care what you think. I will give job to anyone who is closer to me in blood.

i beg to disagree. if i am in a position to employ  somebody , it’ll be keeping in mind my ulterior benefits. like if i own a company and i have a duffer of a sun i’d rather give him an allowance and let him do whatever he likes with it and appoint somebody with gray matter to help me out with the decisions. that way i think i gain more .

“don’t subsidize education” :

well don’t. i’m ok as long as my first concern is addressed.

govt gives that money to the poor caste kids with no talent but a massive vote bank behind them.

well that was what to me the movement was all about. it was against the vote bank politics of these autocratic politicians. we always wanted the removal of reservation of all sorts.  especially caste based.  just  please make  sure that a talented guy doesn’t lose out cos he’s  poor. but talent is the keyword.

taxes : everybody hates them . but if nobody pays them the govt has no money . then who will make the roads , who’ll protect our country against foreign attacks, who’ll pay for the water you use and who cleans up the vat  in your area ?

u must agree that the iits and iims are the best centres of learning… or at least portals of ensurin a lavish livelihood… so if u believe merit shoudn’t be the parameter of qualification then you must suggest an alternative

If I agree that going through IITs and IIMs will definitely make you a rich person, than that gives them no reason to have tax-payers pay for their education. They must go to the bank or other free market players, ask for loan, and pay it back once they get the lavish lifestyle.

but even x’s dad is paying for joe’s education in someway or the other … this guy may be poor and maybe poor enough not to pay taxes … but he does contribute

But didn’t you say that x’s dad is a lousy alcoholic?
If X’s dad can’t pay for X’s education, I hardly think X’s dad can pay for my education in any way.

so if u believe merit shoudn’t be the parameter of qualification then you must suggest an alternative

No I don’t believe that merit should be a parameter of qualification, I believe anyone who is genetically close to me must be given a higher opportunity. I don’t care what you think. I will give job to anyone who is closer to me in blood.

The point here is, private property rights, not merit or anything. If I work hard and earn some honest living do I have a right to do whatever I wanna do with it or not?
Its a different thing that most of the people who earn money will spend money on his kid’s education.
Imagine this, I am a completely non-studious kid, and my dad plans to set me up a shop, but then he has been paying for x’s education and numerous other kids, and in no other way they pay for my shop.
Here merit is not even a criteria.

but again the govt should again ensure that X gets aid to pursue his medic course. cos even if “X” mightn’t be poor enough to solicit financial reservation … his dad wont be able to pay up the whole fees without it (i.e the financial aid)

Why should govt ensure anything? Aren’t your hands burnt enough by the govt already? Govt sold the seats to backward castes for votes.
If there is any X out there, he is still without any quality education. Please don’t tell that “We must elect honest leaders, and change the govt” and that bull ****, because lets say hypothetically even if we achieve that in a few years when this leader goes away(because now he does not have the popular vote), same old people will come back.
So what is a much more efficient and long term solution?
Don’t subsidize education!
Let every person who owns his wealth decide who is a profitable venture for an educational loan and who is not, rather than making all those individual pay taxes to the govt and then govt gives that money to the poor caste kids with no talent but a massive vote bank behind them.

when i said ppl who want to evade taxes i never meant joes dad.

None of the authors on this site support Taxes.

Taxation is theft. Its the property extracted from the rightful owner of the property without his consent with a threat of violence.

@ everybody
i’ve already said i’m not smart enough to give the solution for the problem …. in fact my sole purpose of comin back here is to try and educate myself … let myself understand what you ppl believe …

agreed … joes dad shud feel undone since he has to pay for all the smart alecs in iits and iims. but even x’s dad is paying for joe’s education in someway or the other  … this guy may be poor and maybe poor enough not to pay taxes … but he does contribute  …  now lets say x has a kid who’s as another avg joe(lesse tom) …. and joe’s kid turns out to be “y” another smartie pant. i guess that shud level it out somwhat…

#  u must agree that the iits and iims are the best centres of learning… or at least portals of ensurin a lavish livelihood… so if u believe merit shoudn’t be the parameter of qualification then you must suggest an alternative… and if your real heartburn is that even if the ppl going in are chosen by merit their education shouldn’t be subsidised then i do agree at some level. but again the govt should again ensure that X gets aid to pursue his medic course. cos even if “X” mightn’t be poor enough to solicit financial reservation … his dad wont be able to pay up the whole fees without it (i.e the financial aid)

i’m a great believer of the phrase  survival of the fittest …. but i think we were meant to be benevolent enough to allow the not so fit at least a small opportunity to improve their fitness. and i humbly state that to me the right to education high enuf to justify ones merit is far more fundamental than the right of a woman to have a lavish marriage.

clarification : when i said ppl who want to evade taxes i never meant joes dad. being a joe myself i know how my dad feels about the whole thing. i meant the multitude of “X”s who forget what they need to repay to the nation and the system, who hate taxes even though taxes are what made them worthy enuf to have taxable income….

lookin forward to hearing more from all of you

lets assume this guy x has the talent and the merit to pursue his medical dreams … but has this screwed up dad who has not half enuf means of sending him to a college which demands 16 lakhs , wouldn’t that be deprivation and injustice.

Lets say I am an average Joe, I don’t have much talent as your guy X(its so funny we always presume our kids to be the most brilliant, anyways), my dad wants best for me, he is a nice guy, saved money all his life for my education.

Now you basically want to take money from my dad for the education of X. Of course when my dad pays taxes year after year for IITs and AIIMS, where I can never go, this all money could have been accumulated and spent over my actual education.
Now when I ask these anti-reservation guys that why is that my dad pays taxes for over 20 years for IITs, and then IITs refuse to take me in saying that “your son isn’t smart enough”.
My dad has not to send me to an average college, which with his money could have given me better services, that money right now being spent on X with a poor dad.

Who is the victim of injustice in this picture here? Is it X, or Me?
Wrong, the real victim here is my Dad, he saved his money to be spent on my education but he couldn’t because someone thinks that I am not intelligent enough so he was literally robbed to pay for the education of some “smart kid”.

Now about your road example, you are presuming that the author here supports this single payer road system, due to space constraints we haven’t taken a jab at the current road system.

Lemme tell you one thing buddy, we are consistent throughout all our positions.

y do they pay for the road on the other side of the country that the’ll maybe never use. i think it works like this… they pay for educating some ppl .. who again earn better and are supposed to pay more taxes to ensure the prosperity of the ppl who provided for their education. there are faults in every system .. but i think this one looks pretty fine on paper.. its perhaps unjust to blame the system always.. for a change lets blame the tax evading ppl.. ourselves.

Lets have a common shoe system, you pay for my shoes today, and then tomorrow when I go to office on them, I will pay for your shoes.

Why not do it for each other’s daughter’s weddings too? Lets have tax payer pay for each other’s daughter’s weddings.
I mean take a look at this girl Meena who is really poor, can’t get married, because she has an alcoholic father.
So lets have govt pay for the lavish marriages of women with abusive fathers.
And if you don’t support this idea you are just trying to evade taxes.

i played my small part in the anti caste based reservation protests, got arrested and lathhi charged, thus my views are rather first hand.
you say govt funded higher education which is merit based bein analogous to watever we were protesting against. but tell me , lets assume this guy x has the talent and the merit to pursue his medical dreams … but has this screwed up dad who has not half enuf means of sending him to a college which demands 16 lakhs , wouldn’t that be deprivation and injustice.
you talk of open market scholarships… i think govt money is wat is serving that very purpose.
tax payers .. y wud they like to pay for my education? so y do they pay for the road on the other side of the country that the’ll maybe never use. i think it works like this… they pay for educating some ppl .. who again earn better and are supposed to pay more taxes to ensure the prosperity of the ppl who provided for their education. there are faults in every system .. but i think this one looks pretty fine on paper.. its perhaps unjust to blame the system always.. for a change lets blame the tax evading ppl.. ourselves.

there are problems .. a lot many of them.. and i’m not brave or intelligent enough to give u their solutions.. but i think you are a li’ll off target in identifying this one …