Dec
11
There is a very widespread myth among Indian citizens about Education. Since 1947, Indian Govt is trying to achieve the goal of education for all.
In 1947, the population of India was about 360 million. In 2007, it rose to 1120 million.
Adult literacy rate of India is 61.8% that means; now we have more than 360 million of illiterates.
Let’s see how viable is the idea of education for all?
If India is 100% educated with reading/writing skills to everyone, which educated guy will clean the toilets, work on the construction site, do the entire blue collar labor which do not require that much education?
Those jobs still do not require reading/writing skills. Although people might say that by educated they mean having basic reading/writing skills,and that does not really qualifies a person for a white collar job. So its overall good for the society to have 100% educated society.
The problem is that people in India don’t realize the economic costs of teaching everyone, we were brainwashed into thinking that if we study only then we will be able to make a future, so we presume if everyone studies then it will make their future. Unfortunately it’s not true. Just studying does not secure your future. You have to be really good. For that bottom 1/3rd, its better that nobody waste their money on them, and let them do blue collar jobs.
I know people would hate me for saying these things, but imagine this, lets say the cost of teaching all the kids of India is half the wealth of Mukesh Ambani, and since Mukesh Ambani will not come to street just because we take half his wealth and invest it in educating the kids below poverty line, most people will suggest that we should take half of his wealth. 
But the problem is, most of his wealth is in terms of investments, he will have to shut down half of his business, now imagine half of the Reliance industries shuts down, do people realize how many hard working workers will be out of job because of that?
And so many people dependent on them, what are these people going to do?
In fact if we reduce the taxes on everyone, it will actually help in the creation of more jobs.
Would you like to be served by a cup of tea by a child during your lunch time?
Sure I would love to, in fact a child DOES serves tea in most of the offices. Serving tea is a much better job for children rather than working in coal mines or candle factory.
Many people die of hunger and politicians uses it for their propaganda.
Why a person dies of hunger if he is not a lazy bum?
I mean isn’t the sheer fact that they are dying of hunger an indication that they are useless or lazy bums?
Don’t get into societal propaganda that poverty is something written in your fate, or some people are just born with it. Its bull shit.
Indian Govt is airing a ‘public service’ advertisement on the Television these days. It goes on talking about the thousands of villages that are still there without any proper sanitation hygiene available, and the diseases the people are suffering from.
It then suggest the necessity for hygiene to build a nation.
At one point you might even wonder after looking at the public service ad, that we do need a hygienic environment in India for our society to develop fully. But if you think a bit more morally, a question arises, should we spend money on “development” and welfare by unfairly taking it from those who really earn it (the honest tax payers), rather than allowing those people who earned it to spend it on their kids and make their lives better?
An average Indian would say that education is necessary for all because people lacking this basic skill of reading and writing, the illiterates are being cheated in the every sphere of the society, they are deprived of what they are supposed to get . But the irony of the fact is that also don’t know what they are loosing.
The question is, in order to provide them the basic opportunity, should we rip off the hard working people who work hard just to be make the lives of their kids better?
We believe in equality and equal opportunity, our govt tells us to take care of our parents, it provides us water, electricity, and god knows what not.
It is this deep hand of the government shoved in our throat which stops us from speaking or doing anything, leave alone growing. We have a development fetish, we think that in order to have our Mumbai and Delhi be like New York and Shanghai we must do something, get rid of the slums, kick out those people from Dharavi.
But this is the sole cause of all our problems. We KNOW government is inefficient, we know no matter how many times we put honest people out there, still they end up becoming corrupt, YET we cannot think beyond government, its like our only option. But it is simply not true.
So all we do in the end is hope for an honest person out there.
It is not the corruption which is the enemy of development, it is the government itself which is the enemy of development.
We should not forget that the population of whole USA is just around 310 million now and it has 99% literacy rate. We should also understand that with 61.8% of literacy rate in India, we have just double the number of literate people as there are in USA.
Second problem is our fetish with our culture. We must preserve our Indian culture, we must try to give our children some values. WE give them all the values but the ones really required.
Our kids copy all sorts of values from America, like dating, flirting kissing, but they fail to capture the most important value from America, that is, every man is for himself. 
Do we teach the importance of “self-reliance” “self-importance”, “self-defense”, “self-respect” and selfishness? Do we teach them that they should not look for looting or begging from others for their own benefits?
If there is a vote, everybody must vote for everybody else. a farmer in Maharashtra must vote how the factories of UP must be run, no wonder people hate each other in India, and these differences are going to grow up real fast.
Our problem is, we are like a really rich man who rose from the rags, but still thinks like a slum dweller. We must vote for the guy who takes care of the poor, we are not poor statistically, but we must vote for a party which works for the poor.
We vote for a party which promises us everything in the world, but never promises what we really want. Why the politicians never fulfill their promises?
Because you want something they cannot give us, but since we want it, so they still give us the promises.
We want electricity without paying for it, we want education for your kids without actually paying for it. We want safe-drinking-water without actually paying for it, We want subsidized food without actually earning it.
If a politician promises to open a school for free education, for all, whom do you think is going to pay for the expenses of the school?
If politicians squeeze the tax payers too much they will simply revolt by not giving up their hard earned money to the government. Why will they accept the blatant loot of their hard earned money?
Seriously do we even think before we demand “we want education for all” that who is going to pay for it?
Money and wealth does not grow from trees. Some hard working businessman works for it, you demand more from him, and he starts to steal taxes (after all it’s HIS right to keep his money, not ours.)
Maybe its time when we should stop dreaming, stop drinking that Bhang every Holi and come down on earth and ask for something real. You cannot ask job for your son, because government cannot provide job to everyone, but ask something for the guy who would provide a job to your son, the businessman, the rich corporation.
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1 views44 Responses to “The Myth of Complete Education”
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Chintan Patel Says:
December 11th, 2008 at 3:30 pmA very well researched post as usual…
Rusty Says:
December 11th, 2008 at 6:45 pmWhat to say… I echo the same sentiments…
RINZU SUSAN RAJAN Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:19 pmI stand by your thoughts..But then we must protect the poor from getting carried away…you see these politicians are nothing more than fornicators…people should not get allured but should have the sense to differentiate between a genuine and a fake politician…
a young breed of politicians is what we need…its high time these 70 year olds are out…
Unpretentious Diva Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:30 pm@ Rinzu
Umm I am sorry but I guess before commenting, you even did not read the full post.
As a matter of fact, i gave exact reasons why no matters who the politician be, be he 70 years old or 27 years old, cannot do anything good for poor. What most he can do is loot the hard earner and try to help poor, but in all these tries, he will eventually fail and waste the hard earned money of the earner.
I gave exact reason that why 100% education is not possible by any politics or politician but the poor may make most profits if the Politicians be they young or old be they Rahul Gandhi or MMS, stop trying to help poor by looting the rich or middle class hard workers via taxation.
I wish you read the post before commenting
[:)]
RINZU SUSAN RAJAN Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:51 pmokkk…lemme correct…the fact is i put my opinion there…
and as u said old or young doesnt matter…it does…atleast somewhere it does..
and yes of course mindlessness of polticians is not attributed to the young…they are the sleeping warriors our old politicians like mrs.shivraj patil who failed to sense the threat coming…
he was fast asleep…and then by resigning he tried to prove a point…
if it would have been someone younger he would have been mpre dynamic and energetic…look at the case of mr.shivraj chauhan…people loved the way he worked day and night for the state of mp and look he is in power again…its coz he is younger and laden with ideas beneficial for the people especially the poor class…
Sunny / divik Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 1:29 amultimate article awsome ……. kool man !!!!!! u rock ….. nice presentation
sd Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:17 amOK, a strong set of opinions from Unpretentious, not all of which I agree with, but I think you’ve confused one important issue…
You’re promoting total selfish capitalism here over the socialist bullshit government, right? This is because you believe that giving money and resource to the big corporations will make them expand and hence create more jobs for people who deserve them (ie are educated and skilled enough to warrant being hired) and these will then create more wealth for the company, which could then be pushed back into more jobs, or philanthropic things like building schools, hospitals etc.
OK. So this is promoting greed so that it works for the greater good, whilst satisfying the objectives of the people running the big business.
However, I don’t think this would work without some government legislation to set standards of ethical conduct, health and safety etc. You seem to want the business and corporation to take over everything at the expense of the workers! What if the corporation doesn’t care if it works it’s slave workers to death? Who will prevent that from happening? That’s what the government is there to do (however badly it does it).
Also, I forsee that in such a hyper capitalist situation, there would be a problem where anybody who didn’t meet the standards was pushed out of society. I mean by this not just the lazy bums, as you put it, but honest and hard working people, who happen to be in a earning bracket that falls below whatever standard of living the capitalist culture puts forth. If you can’t pay then you’re out.
Who prevents this? Also, isn’t it true that in a total capitalist situation, there wouldn’t be any ‘giving back’ to the state, because all the income of a business would be for profit? No money would be automatically given to any free or state hospital or school… (it really comes down to the individual’s conscience at that point as to whether they give anything or not).
At least with a vaguely functioning government this is controlled somewhat. I think you have put some good ideas, but you seem to be advocating one extreme over the other. The balance has to be somewhere in between, if for no other reason than to preserve a sense of social morality where we do at least try and care for the less fortunate or more lazy…
Unpretentious Diva Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 2:19 amI never said that.
I am saying why should you or me or Ambani or anybody else give money? And if someone really want to do charity, it is his personal will, let him do, why to make it compulsory, why to force him and induce the idea in him that if he won’t give his own earned money by shear hard work to others, then he will be termed as a culprit.
Why to criminalize those who work hard and earn money ?
I never said give money to Ambani or other corporates.
I said do not forcibly take money from me, or you or Ambani or anybody else for such social causes. it is a personal will of a citizen if he want to help a poor kid near his house or in his city or country or for any such societal cause. Forcing him, applying compulsory taxations, is nothing but looting him.
And those who support such compulsory taxations are doing nothing but begging/looting (supporting the system of government to loot). So do they understand the importance of Self-Respect, Self-Reliance, Selfishness?
Wihtout sense of self, no progres is possible, and sense of self is SELFISHNESS.
And if someone look in Vedic culture, he will certainly find the deep rooted and respected philosophy of selfishness as the basic of living.
But in general people keep copying the wrong and misinterpreted ideas rather than applying brains. It is not only about copying west, it is about copying Indian misinterpreted culture and philosophies without checking.
Sorry, but it shows that you have misinterpretations of Capitalism.
In fact, in a free capitalist society, Unemployment is impossible. Only that person can remain unemployed in free capitalist society who actually is unable of working due to some disease or any other reason, or HE who actually is a looter, beggar, moocher and do not want to earn honest living.
The unable person won’t be outcasted because he is committing no mistake. And i am sure he will get enough supporters for a standard living within his family, society, circle etc. Charity is NOT SIN, but it is not a Virtue too.
In a free capitalist society, even housewife is working and she is working alot and she gets her value for her efforts.
But about the other sort of people, the looters, beggars, moochers, demanding reservations etc….they cannot be accepted in a free civilized society. Yes they cannot be accepted because they pose danger to individual citizen’s freedom.
Mayuresh Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 3:08 amLet’s see how viable is the idea of education for all?
If India is 100% educated with reading/writing skills to everyone, which educated guy will clean the toilets, work on the construction site, do the entire blue collar labor which do not require that much education?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Who does these jobs ( + green collar jobs ) in US then?
Money and wealth does not grow from trees. Some hard working businessman works for it.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Are you talking about Ambani, the “bigger” one?
Unpretentious Diva Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 3:25 amAre you trying to compare America and India?
And do you think America is the best country you must follow?
And by the way are you ignoring the massive number of Literates/educated in India?
The number is 62 millions. Overall American population is 31 million. And all 31 million Americans are not educated.
Now will you try to compare the number of Employed person in India and in America? You will get some startling effects. America is not a developed country because of 99% literacy rateLiteracy doesn’t make a nation or state rich.
Kerala is not a Rich state no matters it has 99% literacy too.
I am talking of myself, you and every other tax paying citizen who has been constantly looted via compulsory taxation.
Do you feel it is very difficult to understand? Where is your Mind?
Ambani is just an example and it is pretty clear is not it?
And if i am talking of Ambani, what is your opposition to that?
Are you producing even a millionth part of the money which Ambani is producing by means of his efforts?
How much money do you think all the MLA’s and Ministers of India are producing?
By the way, do compare the number of persons for whom Mukesh Ambani is providing a Job a way to earn honest living. And the number of people you are providing a Job a way of honest living.
Than try to think if the 45%-50% Taxes which you pay and which is almost always embezzled or lost in the holes of bureaucracy and static government system, if you are allowed to not to pay, will you be able to provide some Job opportunities for some people? Any kind of job it can be, be it babysitter job or house keeping job or anything.
EVEN you and I can be an entrepreneur if government stop looting us.
But then it is your freedom.
Rather than creating Jobs, you may like to invest your own money which at present you give as tax to government in educating some poor kids. for that you may engage some teachers too. it is also creating job, the thing is you won’t let teachers and workers to cheat and corrupt the system of school owned by you.
or well If you like you may give a share of your earned money VOLUNTARILY to the democratically appointed government which may work as a social service. As a matter of fact that is what the work of government is serving the citizens. But for that Voluntarily taxation is needed not compulsory taxation.
Gaurav Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 1:04 pmI think education is one objective every individual should aspire to,because education introduces you to the values for life,now as i read “Knowledge is something which you are left with shen you have learnt everything”.The issue which is needed to be understood is that no one else can be claimed to be responsible for someone else’s objective,In any such state,the word “Objective”,”Responsiblity” aned knowledge all will get bigoted.But then i don’t find it agreeable that education will rob me of my toilet cleaner,the greatest virtue with education is that more knowledgable entities it produces,more value is added into the meaning of life,i.e.,knowledge opens humanity to newer field,now earlier there don’t use to be a architect,engineers,doctors so ignorant,irration ideals flourished,but after all of them came were all those people who were engaged in these died ,no,they understand they need to add some “virtues” to their life so that it can achieve value of their life,similary when tomorrow all the toilet-cleaners will become educated,maybe by all those educated workforce we unsolve many illusionary fact of universe or come up with a software which can cure cancer or a robot which will serve you tea when you go to a restaurent or ……..
Vinisha Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 4:15 pmI absolutely love this post. Takes away the frills. Takes out the illusion.
I think the concept of complete literacy stems from the desire to not see a person fooled, put in other words, the necessity of cultivating a ‘thinking being’
Though I am not sure how much the Indian Education System contributes towards this cause. Never having to struggle to get into school for education or doing it for the sake of getting a job, I must confess, I took it pretty lightly. My judgement of how efficient the our ABCD system is, hence, likely to be biased. :)
Mayuresh Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 4:39 pmAmerica is not a developed country because of 99% literacy rate. Literacy doesn’t make a nation or state rich.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,
then what is it that makes a you rich?
Mayuresh Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 6:47 pmI do not know any of the philosophers imposing their psychic reality on others. I do not know any of the philosophers appreciating power or money, came out of unethical, indecent behaviour, in any of the systems.
Mayuresh Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 11:30 pmJust studying does not secure your future. You have to be really good.
You mean wealth is not created by “intelligence” but goodness? Or that “intelligence” is inborn and education is a failure? Or that “goodness” implies a secure future? Does secure future mean ability/position to earn more money?
renegade_division Says:
December 16th, 2008 at 9:05 am100,000 people ready for jobs does not help anyone. Its the entrepreneurship which makes you rich.
Sadly we are coming from a Socialist society where the only main kind of jobs were “service sector”.
Our parents were brainwashed since childhood that “study hard and become a doctor or an engineer”, if you are not studying hard, then your dad better be a really rich businessman in which case you have to take care of his business. There is no entrepreneur spirit anywhere.
See we are not suggesting here that its better to be illiterate than to be educated, that is simply not true.
What our point is that if there is a group of 100 random people, and you spend all the money you have in educating all of them equally, you are not going to make them better rather you are going to bring the whole society into more poverty.
Instead of that if you allow capital accumulation, 10 of them will become entrepreneur 20 of them Managers, 30 of them Salesmen, 40 of them working for the rest of the people in some way or the other.
In this case, the last 40 of the people aren’t as good as the rest of the 60 people, but they are better than they would be other wise.
Take a look at American society.
Compare their smartest person with our smartest person, and then compare their average joe with our average joe.
Their smartest people have PhD’s, MBAs, and own companies, which does business of millions of dollars, our smartest person also has PhD’s, MBA’s but works a 10-12 lakhs per annum job.
Their average joe works in McDonalds, Police Force, Nurse, drives a car, lives in a condo and does not even hold a 4 year college degree.
Our average joe works in govt office, Call Center, low profile jobs in IT companies, Police Dept, school teacher or is unemployed and holds at least a Bachelor’s degree in some field.
Their smartest people are in a WAY better condition then OUR smartest people.
Their average joes are in STILL better condition then our average joes.
Why is that?
The difference between their rich and poor is way more than the difference between our rich and poor, yet their poor can buy the whole household, car, and all the possessions of our poor with their one month’s salary.
You must be a smart guy Mayuresh that’s why you are pissed at our apparent disrespect to education.
But you are confusing education with real life utility.
Not all educated people are as equally useful. In fact most of them are total waste.
On the other hand the non-educated people who work on a construction site aren’t that much of a waste because nothing was spent on them.
Mayuresh Says:
December 16th, 2008 at 10:15 amThe answer could simply be optimum(/maximum) utilization of available resources; which in turn suggests capitalism; thus social, sexual and financial inequality; which is not preferred by most of the philosophers. Inequality in society is most of the times spirit-crushing for all classes (not just lower ones), we should approach to a better civilization which is a process of making humans more humanlike for which education is a must.
Mayuresh Says:
December 16th, 2008 at 10:40 amIf you ( and many others ) think that “A better civilization in which humans are more humanlike” or “equality” are themselves myths, then it will never happen. But “equality” was never a myth in ancient India. People did not even thought about it. People accepted Ram as a man and Hanuman as a monkey. It is the western society that has got a structure aroused through social fightings for equality and rights.
Unpretentious Diva Says:
December 16th, 2008 at 12:42 pmAnd why is education must?
and what type of education? A certificate from CBSE board?
So you want a governmental authority to give you a certificate that you are more human and if one don’t have that certificate then he is a subhuman?
You are in too much disillusions. Plus, there is no proper definition of education too.
The discussion is. it would be great if all are educated.
But it is not practical to provide education to all. Also, it would be anti-human to force and loot people on account of providing education to others.
Just because you need education or food or whatever, you should not rob your neighbor, or should you?
Although if you yourself want to educate some poor, it is your right to invest your earned money for that purpose. You can surely demand other people’s voluntary contribution for that purpose of yours, you should not force them though.
If you force them, than it is just like Hafta-vasooli for your personal purposes.
About equality, it is a myth and it will never happen because it is against the nature.
Equality sustains on natural premises, on natural rights premise everybody is equal.
Everybody has right to try to endeavor and take profits of his hard work. There is no way possible to allocate equal profits though. Otherwise what would be the incentive for two workers to work better? where would be the competition if no matters how the two workers work, no matters one of them is intelligent worker and other is dumb but both will get equal profits/wages?
Equality is not only a myth it is an irrational myth.
Mayuresh Says:
December 16th, 2008 at 1:57 pm@ renegade_division
Their smartest people have PhD’s, MBAs, and own companies, which does business of millions of dollars, our smartest person also has PhD’s, MBA’s but works a 10-12 lakhs per annum job.
Our smartest people working for MNCs ( which buy technology from others and sell projects outside; which is affordable for MNCs because of currency exchange rate) prove that India is not even closer to a “sovereign” state. Neither Indian MNCs dare to create their own products. Buying technology will not make Indians intellectuals, but only few people more powerful. Globalization and Economic Liberalisation Strategies of India will help to get us more foreign currency, ( which is needed for oil ) but it will not make Indian software engineers “Knowledge workers” but “cyber-coolies”. We Indians do not have technology base of our own, except ISRO, I must say.
The central task of education is to implant a will and facility for learning; it should produce not learned but learning people. The truly human society is a learning society.
@Unpretentious Diva
“Kerala is not a Rich state no matters it has 99% literacy too.”
You must be knowing how crazy south Indians are for fantacy movies. Will you call them educated? I was in south for some days, where I get to know that cyberabadi intellectuals demanded minimum 1 crore of dowry in IT booming days. India is not even socially developed, except few parts.
For a country to become a sovereign state, good quality of higher education is necessary. Not just that, willingness of “highly educated” people to do “better work” ( of course for money) is must. In India, even IITans ( IIT being highy respectable Institute ) do not want to engage themselves in a work they are capable to do nor anybody encourages them to.
@ renegade_division
There is no entrepreneur spirit anywhere.
Not all educated people are as equally useful. In fact most of them are total waste.
On the other hand the non-educated people who work on a construction site aren’t that much of a waste because nothing was spent on them.
I agree that “entrepreneur spirit is necessary”, but not at the cost of education. You will find only highly educacted entrepreneurs only doing great work.
“A 4th standard pass doing big business” ( unethical mostly ) is a myth, I think.
@Unpretentious Diva
Would you like to be served by a cup of tea by a child during your lunch time? Sure I would love to, in fact a child DOES serves tea in most of the offices.
What if a machine serves a tea? Or you want a manual service till desk ( by some child ) only. What about Philosophy of Objectivism ( Man must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life ) that inspires you then? Or it is not for all men?
Unpretentious Diva Says:
December 16th, 2008 at 2:17 pmWhom is the child sacrificing for? and what is he sacrificing? Am I forcing him to serve tea?
Listen idiot, the child serving the tea is an Objectivist. he is not begging from anybody, he is earning his efforts to have a life full of respect. Nor he is sacrificing anything for anybody. Nobody is forcing him to work. it is his FREEDOM. Freedom to live and earn his living respectfully, and enjoy his life.
Objectivism doesn’t mean keep begging or looting others for your own fun, Objectivism means earn your living your right your happiness.
I see no difference between a 13 year girl working on TV channels and daily serials as Balika Vadhu, and a child working as a tea server, for me both are respectful and appreciable.
If there is a person in dire need of some job to earn money, i will surely provide him a job rather than applying a machine, but then it is my choice, you can opt for a machine though.
Philosophy of Objectivism is for every Body, for that child too. That is why he is free to work as a tea server, it is his right.
And what he earns from it is his happiness.
Why should I deny him his right to have a respectful way of earning?
He is not stealing, nor begging, nor looting anyone.
He is working, and earning his efforts. I will certainly respect him.
Why do you think you should not respect that child serving tea in offices?
Unpretentious Diva Says:
December 16th, 2008 at 2:32 pmThe most foolish comment by Mayuresh (in which he tried to state that the child working as a tea server is sacrificing something) reminds me of one very good advertisement of some bank ( I think ICICI?) in which a kid works in his neighbor by helping an old lady lifting her good from shop to her home and then the old lady gives the kid a Rupee, The kid runs to his fathers office (who is shown as the manager of that bank) and gives him that money, that single Rupee, saying Dad, it is my first income, please save it. and his father feels pride, and opens up a saving account for his son.
Lol the kid was not sacrificing anything. He was earning.
Lata Mangeshkar was not from a rich family. She started working as an actress at age of five.
At the age of 13, Lata mangeshkar’s father died of a heart disease and poverty forced her to work harder as a playback singer and an actress. it was difficult for her to look after her big family and working was a necessity. And she got work, she worked she was a child-worker. She kept working hard and improving her talent and it pave of. she is amongst the best female singers of all times whole round the world.
Even her younger sister Asha Bhosle is not Much different. She and her elder sister Lata Mangeshkar began singing and acting in films to earn a living. Asha Bhosle was only 9 years old then.
Both were child workers.
Even Sunidhi Chauhan started her career at the age of four.
Also, who can forget DhiruBhai Ambani?
He was 14 years old when he started selling Pakora’s to the pilgrims, and at the age of 16 he started working with a private company.
renegade_division Says:
December 19th, 2008 at 7:25 am@Mayuresh Said:
Basically you want mass brainwashing of the society into submission. IF even a single child is left behind, and he can think for himself, and he thinks selfishly, your whole system collapses.
Hmm, in attempts of Socialism, the Socialist govts tried it a lot to make everyone work, live and survive for each other rather than on selfish basis.
Do you know what happened to that? Socialism ended up creating the most successful society world has ever seen. Everybody was prosperous, happy, and willing to be a part of the society and give its output to the others.
In fact that was the reason that in 1989 USA collapsed and got disintegrated into 50 different states because their individuals did not care about other people in the society.
Currently United States of America is in dire poor condition, and people don’t have anything to feed themselves with.
Sure just like all that happened, your idea of mass “education” will also succeed.
Dude you are heavily delusional about education. Plus you failed to get the whole point of the article.
The point of the article was: “Education for all is merely a rhetoric which does not takes into consideration of the fact that massive resources are required for educating everyone, and this usage of resources could have been better used for something else, and to make society better, rather than worse off”.
You keep on talking about how a 4 th grade pass kid cannot take care of a huge organization, and Unpretentious also got dragged into this and started giving examples of how Dhirubhai ambani was only 4th grade pass.
But that’s not the Point. The Point is:
1) Whether spend Rs 2 lakhs on a kid to teach him to a degree and to eventually result in him not using any part of his education in earning a living
OR
2) To give Rs 2 lakh to him on Loan to start his own business.
You cannot do both.
Thats when the economic calculation comes useful.
If its cheaper to install a machine to serve coffee, then have a coffee machine installed.
West invented Coffee Machines because their labor is very costly, kids don’t work, and no law is required to prevent them(although a law is there).
There is no point in using a Coffee Machine if you can give employment to 3 people for that money.
Unpretentious Diva Says:
December 25th, 2008 at 5:44 pmMany a times it becomes exactly impossible to even to dream for educating all.
More interesting fact is, even such situations occur because of the flaws of collectivism.
Education for all, as we have discussed over is not viable economically, hence government has no viable reason or justification to tax the citizen for that cause.
However, what is a group of Individual citizens acting as an NGO or a private school vows to provide fundamental education to spread literacy at very viable or even zero fees?
Basically, in a capitalist society it is quite possible that private schooling becomes so much viable to actually make the education and literacy for all streams a possibility while making profit out of the situation too.
Also, it is the freedom of citizen if they voluntarily make a charity fund just to help poor children to get proper literacy and fundamental education.
Yet, such practices become almost affectless due to the existence of some other sort of collectivist groups working only to hurt and destroy the basic thread of humanity.
Taliban extremists in Pakistan’s troubled northwest Swat valley have banned girls from attending school, threatening to kill any female students, officials said Thursday.
“You have until January 15 to stop sending your girls to schools. If you do not pay any heed to this warning, we will kill such girls,” one official quoted the commander as saying.
“We also warn schools not to enrol any female students; otherwise, their buildings will be blown up.”
Taliban_threaten_to_kill_Pakistani_schoolgirls
Government against Educating Poor | Reason For Liberty Blog Says:
December 30th, 2008 at 7:23 am[…] government can never bring education for all. It is a wrong idea. Why it is? Answer lies here. The Myth of Education For All Furthermore, do you think that education is a fundamental right? As a matter of fact Education Can […]
I am proud to be an Indian! or am I? | Reason for Liberty Says:
December 31st, 2008 at 7:01 am[…] Why do people move abroad? Because we first we have this fetish with 100% Education, then our fetish is with IITs, IIMs, and AIIMs, massive amount of money is taken from people in terms of Taxes and Revenues. The whole environment of business and entrepreneurship is killed by IITs, and IIMs, then we expect that once our kids graduate from these institutes they will be able to become entrepreneur and give something back to the society. Nothing is more ridiculous than this. Read more here. […]
Inefficiency of Indian Education System | Reason for Liberty Says:
January 2nd, 2009 at 10:26 am[…] not want to see is that they are simply destroying the social fabric of a period 20 years from now. Luckily our government is so inefficient they would never be able to achieve any task they set forth… we may not fact this problem in such acute […]
Vikram Says:
January 3rd, 2009 at 6:46 amUnpre, first off the number of employment opportunities in the world is not an absolute, fixed number, it is in fact very relative and depends on a huge number of factors. In general entrpreneurial people can create employment by creating and delivering essential and non-essential products and services to the consuming public. In a capitalist economy they will face competition and will have to find ways to keep their products and service cheaper or better to stay in business.
As businesses boom and bust, jobs are lost and new ones are created. One just needs the right skills to find (new) jobs, and for that you need some new education.
But that is not the benefit of an educated populace, as I responded in my blog,
In the functioning of a democratic state education is more important as a tool for being informed and politically active than for any employment opportunities it may provide. That is why the more literate states like Kerala and Tamil Nadu can ensure better governance than states like Bihar that have low literacy.
Note that inspite of the high literacy rate, the majority of Keralites still work in farms. An education definitely increases both the prospects and anticipation of better employment. But in the absence of alternatives, people will still work in whatever jobs they can find.
Unpretentious Diva Says:
January 3rd, 2009 at 10:28 amWho provides job? Who creates employment? Government?
What sort of job? Pradhan Mantri Yojgar yojna? Labour works for farmers in making unstandardized roads? Using local unskilled labour while for a work which requires much more skilled and professional job?
What sort of qualification does it take to work as a labour in road making?
it is the main reason for bad conditions and prone to deterioration road system of India that, road and transportation system is under government.
About Kerala, I don’t agree it is in any better condition than Bihar.
What do you really know about Kerala? Just like Bihar is backward (which you say is because of illiteracy) kerala is also backward. So much backward that A school bans two children from entering school premises just because they are suffering from AIDS.
And anyways, the high literacy rate of KErala is not because of government. it is because of private missionaries and schools.
It is Nonviable for Indian government to provide complete education and why it is nonviable has been discussed here.
If you want to ignore the nonviability of a policy and want to keep looting and help government loot citizens (along with you of course) than it is another thing. But reality is same.
Literacy and in fact skill providing education is possible for poor only if government stop intervention in school market.
I recommend you to read the second part of the ongoing discussion here..
Inefficiency of Indian Education System.
Vikram Says:
January 3rd, 2009 at 10:39 amGargi, if you read the first part of my comment, I clearly mention that a vibrant private sector provides most jobs. Government does provide jobs but on a smaller scale.
Your argument for Kerala being as backward as Bihar is anecdotal and not acceptable without solid data to back it up. The data, btw, all points to the exact opposite.
Yes, no doubt Missionary schools must have played a part, but these schools are in general heavily subsidized by the state. It is good that you mentioned private missionaries, because that proves that the state does not intervene heavily in education when another party provides it.
I did not claim that a state-run education system will be highly efficient in terms of quality. My claim was that it was interest of a democratic state itself to educate its citizens to a certain level, to ensure its own smooth functioning. And I gave the example of Kerala and Bihar to demonstrate my claim. To disprove my thesis you will have to either show that,
a) Kerala is indeed as backward as Bihar or
b) The relative well-being of Kerala’s citizens bears no relation at all to the high literacy there.
Vikram Says:
January 3rd, 2009 at 10:41 amNote that when I say intervene above, I meant interference not support.
Unpretentious Diva Says:
January 3rd, 2009 at 10:59 amDo you really think it is difficult to prove that?
What about the number of farmers in Kerela commiting suicide?
Is it any less than farmers of Vidharbha commiting suicide?
Your thesis is wrong and TOO much influenced by the general idea that Bihar is backward (thanks to Bollywood and useless news channels) That doesn’t means that Bihar is affluent. it is backward, but Kerela is also not much forward.
Also, people can have different idea about ( what is backward/Forward)
Kerela is highly backward along with West bengal because of the deep roots of communism and socialism there. Communism itself is a BACKWARD and destructive idea, and it wont take too much for me to PROVE this.
Bihar and chattisgarh is suffering from Naxalism extremely. Bihar never got governmental support too. Therres alot of reason cos of which Bihar is backward, but kerela is backward even in absence of those reason.
46 farmers commit suicide everyday in India.
Maharsthra (vidharbha tops the list, kerela comes third position, Andhra Tilangana being the second,( Bihar is not any way near to it.)
About providing jobs, actually by providing some jobs, government culls alot opportunities for private sector to provide many more times in number of the jobs government provides/may provide.
Privatization need to keep creating jobs as a natural rule to sustain profits. It is a NECESSITY of free market.
While government Does Not suffer from such necessities.
Mostly a democratic government does not take it as a responsibility, it takes job providing as a trick to gain more votes. And that actually harms the market.
Unpretentious Diva Says:
January 3rd, 2009 at 11:14 amFor Vikram
http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?cp-documentid=1717925
It is a 2008 report dealing with suicide case in 2008!
Vikram Says:
January 5th, 2009 at 11:51 pmGargi, you make a good point about farmer suicides. The NGO I work with, AID, is supporting a Kerala organization called Thanal that among other things deals with the causes of farmer suicide. And the good education and healthcare that the Kerala govt provides are certainly not one of them. They are actually more related to the switching to cash crops and depending on the market for selling their produce !
Farmer suicide is a complex and significant phenomenon, but by itself cannot be a metric for measuring development. This is because, it has very specific causes which are in general unrelated to overall human development.
I can vouch very safely (from stats and anecdotal accounts) that the quality of life in Kerala is much higher than that in Bihar.
Unpretentious Diva Says:
January 6th, 2009 at 2:04 amAnd the good education and healthcare that the Kerala govt provides are certainly not one of them.
Lol.
I never said education is killing them.
I said education is NOT helping them. So your rhetorics that education certifies developed state is wrong.
Second thing is, It is a known fact that Higher literacy of Kerala is NOT because of government but it is because of Private schooling that is Missionary schools.
about good health-care, a socialist/communist health care can never be good.
<i>Kerala - God’s own country has traditionally been shown off as an example of how things should be done. The public health system here has a wide coverage and has been sustained by a literate and aware public. However, the government is deep in debt and this financial crisis is taking a toll on growth and investment. The fiscal deficit has doubled in the past 10 years and the public health system has not been able to keep up. Public expenditure on healthcare has fallen from 1.14% to 0.99%.
Indian IT Hospital Survey!
Do you understand what is Fiscal deficit?
Do you understand the current economic meltdown of USA?
Government spending MUCH more than it is earning, hence it is creating Deficits, that is loans.
You know what? Such loans have to be paid back too.
Even USA crumbled under government deficits, so you can understand what is the situation of kerala.
What do you think of a family whose total earning is Rs25/a month and spendings are Rs100 a month?
Even on the scales of fiscal deficit, Bihar is much better than kerala.
Vikram Says:
January 6th, 2009 at 2:13 amAnd I did not claimed that education helped the particular farmers that committed suicide. It helps the vast majority of farmers who have improved access to information, techniques and markets. Not to mention increased awareness about the state and its activities.
I dont think that a lack of fiscal deficit overrides higher life expectancy, less disease and better health insurance.
In any case being educated helps the citizens stay informed about these crises and be prepared which they would have a chance for if they were not literate in the 1st place.
Unpretentious Diva Says:
January 6th, 2009 at 2:34 amLack of fiscal defcit ensures one thing, that the common man won’t be harassed and robbed by government by means of taxes.
No matters how, kerala need to pay back that money, it is loan, it is debt.
And as I have mentioned, with the effects of deficit, the health care of Kerala is deteriorating now.
So all your goody goody feeling about good health-care etc are just a BUBBLE, which is bursting now.
On the top of that, the loan, the debt, or the money Kerala government begged to provide “free-healthcare” etc is a burden on Keralites and Indians. We will pay for the health care of Keralites.
it is direct loot. I don’t pay even Rs2/- for my neighbors cough syrup. Why should I pay for some keralite or Delhite or Bhopali for that sake?
But because of the government’s deficit, now i am forced to pay. They are already looting me through taxes.
And as you have accepted it, no matters what good education or health-care bubble/imaginary makes you feel, people are dying of hunger and debt.
Unpretentious Diva Says:
January 6th, 2009 at 2:38 amAbout government health-care, you need to look for the truth.
Get a hold about government health-care system and so-called good health care here —
Govrn. health care System
By the way, why don’t you simply assert that you are stern communist and you do believe that your idea of communism is best?
You want education free, you want health care free, what more you want for free?
And who will pay for that?
If all gets free, who will provide?
So in order to provide free education and healthcare for the MAJORITY, you will loot, harass, bully and rob the Minority? The smallest minority being the Individual.
How is it different from a loot of muslim colony by some Hindu fundamentalist goons, or loot of a hindu colony by a gang of Islamist? Both are same, one is organized terrorism by government, and other is Unoragnized terrorism by cults, and both are CRIMES against Humanity, individuality and honesty.
GP Says:
January 9th, 2009 at 3:40 pmHow far fetched!! ..let me ask u - how about same educated guys developing automated system to take care of such donkey/mechanical work in future?…..don’t u think education..perhaps higher education will
help them to do that?..and why we need manual intervention if streams of applied sciences help us to create engineers who can automate such work?..bottom line : education is not a waste provided u know very well how to make a use of it for ur own good.
so far it true. Only the incompetent and un-adaptable creatures make rant about not getting enough out of school/college education to make my life successful; In fact I wud say - the school or college education will just provide u a base on which u need to build up
your career and make a most of every opportunity coming your way to become successful in life.The basic purpose of school / college education
is to offer you just facts and figures…..Now,how u apply them in your life should be figure out ONLY by that individual.If person him/herself don’t have that eagerness to apply the knowledge in his/her life how cud one blame existing education system for it?
I think u don’t like to pay the taxes. so do I :) ..but I think u need to!! of course, unless you run out of your investment options of tax saving schemes. :). I mean lets face it. You can’t compel govt. to stop collecting taxes no matter how much I/u strongly believe they are misusing the tax payer’s money and shud restrict their duties ONLY to maintain law and order in state and let rest of the public decide whats best for them..True Freedom and Liberty!! ..Isn’t it??
I hope u got my point. So, unless you got a practical solution to change present democratic system in INDIA, you gotta work around the problem..you have to find the solution within limits of practical feasibility. and of course by thinking through, by placing urself in position of those poor chaps who couldn’t afford the basic education.
Nope. I think rest of the ppl(who are not self-centered) will think that - Its NOT just responsibility of Mukesh Ambani BUT every citizen of india to contribute to this educational budget by paying his/her share of money (as per income tax rules) because Mukesh Ambani is not government and has not taken any sort of contract to educate every citizen of india through his own pocket….By the way are you aware if FM ministry has hinted about any potential hike in existing taxation or to bring any new tax in this picture to accommodate for this budget?
Naaaah…. I guess they die becoz of starvation especially in Somalia, there is no food , no water and no work to earn for living bcoz of their physical disabilities.
of course everyone(i.e. those who are eligible for it as per I.T. rules) have to pay for it in the form of taxes coz I dont expect govt. to take a loan from World Bank for it and even if its planning to do so, the premium will be leveraged through taxation ONLY.
I think u seriously need to rethink about ur view “Govt is looting public by collecting taxes”(I know u haven’t written it specifically in ur post but that wht the implied message is from ur post and pardon me if i am wrong).
Also, don’t forget defense budget also based on taxation .. ( Also, enlighten me about your thoughts on privatizing -Military forces and Defense Research related organizations of nation??..how much practical it is to privatize the Armed forces so that
- we don’t have to trust on inefficient and corrupt govt.for taking care of salaries and Armed expenditure of soldiers and Army officers in higher rank. and I will really appreciate if u could come with ONLY two headings in ur post
Pros and Cons of privatizing Armed forces and defense related R&D operations currently done by DRDO )
Unpretentious Diva Says:
January 9th, 2009 at 3:45 pmWell, it is the reality that Taxation and Subsidies are a loot.
They are a loot because they are not VOLUNTARY. Make taxation voluntary.
See you agree that centralized military is necessity.
So do you think that others will also agree with you?
After all they have also got mind don’t they?
That is, they will also think the same, and then they will pay for the centralized military freely by their choice. That payment will be used properly for the maintenance of security system not for politicians and bureaucrats corrupt schemes, i am sure you are aware of MIG21 Boforse and many more similoar corruptions. So that will be avoided.
Furthermore, since people knows Military is important, they will spend the exact money they want to invest for security without hinderance from politicians.
That is, If I want to invest half or 75% of my income for this anum to Military or air force, i can, I am free for it.
By taxation, i am not free to do so. I have to pay 50% of my income every anum, and even 10% of the payed doesn’t goes directly to military. it gets wasted.
Also, lets say a portion of people don’t think paying to central military is necessary for this anum, they pay for local security force more, it is upto them to decide. They will be free. That is, every security force will have to prove its importance to the consumer that is we directly. That competition will make them all honest and responsible and free from corruption.
And even if somehow someof them gets corrupt, the consumers won’t invest in a corrupt sec
urity system further. They will opt for better one.
DRDO is the worst government department with NO serious progress and profit. Competition will make it work better, further more consumer will have choice where to invest to make profits and better security system./
About your request, it is certainly NOT impossible.
And I am working on it.
Another thing is it won’t be an Innovation by me. It has been innovated already, I just have to study learn and understand it. Than I will surely make the required post.
By the way you have got more on education in comments here
Irrational Equality
maya Says:
January 9th, 2009 at 5:23 pm@unpretentious diva
Your beloved america spends most of its tax payers money on defence.
You have got completely messed up in your mind. You are just rattling the same thing and are failing to look at the other prespective.
let me tell you something about myself, after completing 12 I applied for bsc, dropped out after 1 year, then did fine arts dropped out after 1 year, then did computer programming course and a course in animation and dropped out of them. so basically i dont consider education important atall. But thats not the point, point is did i get a chance to pursue what i wanted, answer is yes. Every one in the country should get an opportunity to education, after that its his choice wether he wants to pursue further or not.
And your view regarding child labour is pathetic. If your familiy dies in accident and when your child comes to me with the tea i will surely give him some good tip. Afterall he is doing what he likes, he earning from a decent work. Or when he is cleaning the public toilet i would tell him education and all are bullshit. You are doing a very good job, you are a productive unit of the society. You are the symbol for capitalism at its best.
As luck would have it, you had good parents they sent you to good schools, else you would have been begging on the streets, and if begging is against your capitalism model then you might be selling yourself in the red light area (the so called example of capitalism).
I dont want to comment on the point you are making in terms of education, because you wont understand you would say the same thing that sarkar is looting you. Why do u call yourself a human.
renegade_division Says:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:43 pm@GP said:
Not really. We don’t “not like” to pay taxes, we just think taxation is wrong.
Remind me again what do we celebrate on 15th of August every year? Our failure to not being able to do anything about British rule??
Like a govt involving both Queen appointed Britishers and democratically elected Indians. Is that right? Seriously dude we fought for our independence for 90 years, don’t insult all that by talking about “Yeah but so what, can it really be done? I don’t think so, you must think of something practically feasible”.
We can’t just start jumping on with our guns trying to get rid of taxation. Look around you think we oppose taxes because we hate to pay them. India is full of that kind of thinking. We are trying to get rid of that here first. Please don’t ask how are we trying to achieve that. Also please read my comment to a reader here: Its about Liberty and Reason!
Will I beg for food? Bhavati Bhikshaam dehi… « Back to Bharat Says:
June 27th, 2009 at 9:09 pm[…] Filed under: NGO, social change — neosurya @ 20:56 Excerpt from a blog with a very pragmatic look at several issues, including education for all: The problem is that […]
S. Pal Says:
August 7th, 2009 at 9:12 amHello, it is an excellent and thought provoking article. It is one of my favorite sites. I am a fellow Objectivist from India. I think the problem is not only socialism, but democracy also. Today the word “democracy” has become synonymous with liberty and justice, but it is not. What we call democracy is nothing but mobocracy where the unintellectual majority gang rules over the intellectual minority. We confuse democracy with freedom which is a major problem. Democracy and dictatorship are same. In dictatorship the individual is at the mercy of the dictator and in democracy the individual is at the mercy of the majority gang.
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=5496
The present political system in India compels all political parties to depend on the votes of the people, majority of whom are either illiterate, or literate but uneducated and unenlightened. In a systematic socialist propaganda, the government has made most people believe that free education is a norm and it is justice. Since most people are illiterate or unenlightened, they cannot understand what is right or wrong. If a classical liberal/libertarian/Objectivist party want to solve the problem and promise to abolish the system of free education, the people will not vote them and they will not be able to gain power in New Delhi. This is why all parties are compelled to provide “free” education to keep themselves in power. IMO a good country needs republicanism, not democracy. Unfortunately our constitution declares India both socialist and democratic country. If we continue to have this mob rule, it is not possible to eradicate the decades-old socialist system. It is true for any country.