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	<title>Comments on: Education: A Birth Right?</title>
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		<title>By: city of night</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/education/education-a-birth-right.html#comment-1771</link>
		<dc:creator>city of night</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1776#comment-1771</guid>
		<description>re: infinity &gt;&gt;
 &quot;And I was trying to highlight the fact that you would have all kind of people in any system, which makes it tough for us to assume perfection.&quot;
re : DMOC &gt;&gt;
&quot;If you know what is good,why would you choose which is mixture of good and bad,which is evil? There is no excuse for choosing gray once you know what is good.&quot;

CON reply &gt;&gt;&gt;
The good and bad are people&#039;s opinions, subject to change, not the rule. The right and wrong set the rule/benchmark. There are 2 ways of seeing a condition : from a cell&#039;s point of view and from a system&#039;s point of view.
The particular shade of gray, black or white which suits a person, change with conditions he is subjected to. . like, I would steal food if i am hungry and in a famine, knowing that my actions be labelled &quot;wrong&quot; . The right and wrong are colourless, the good/bad always coloured.
Every person being unique, defines his own appeal to the system -- any system applies equally to all, on a minimal interference basis. A cell thinks in terms of good/bad, the system thinks in terms of right/wrong.
Now, your being lazy and your thinking that you are lazy are two different things. A lazy person has 3 paths :
1. A lazy as well as unproductive person&#039;s survival is at risk to anyone merely working harder than him.
2. A person lazy in effort, yet productive enough to clear a benchmark, survives unchallenged.
3. A person lazy in effort, whose productivity questions the benchmark, survives with possible threats at challenging the system.

Thus, the lazy person is endangered under every system, yet at times survives to challenge it.

P.S. &gt;&gt; A lazy person is someone who will not increase his productivity, if you raise an existing benchmark, but groan/make noise. This is the very thing that prevents a system from becoming a machine. I particularly am not willing to live in a machine. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: infinity &gt;&gt;<br />
 &#8221;And I was trying to highlight the fact that you would have all kind of people in any system, which makes it tough for us to assume perfection.&#8221;<br />
re : DMOC &gt;&gt;<br />
&#8220;If you know what is good,why would you choose which is mixture of good and bad,which is evil? There is no excuse for choosing gray once you know what is good.&#8221;</p>
<p>CON reply &gt;&gt;&gt;<br />
The good and bad are people&#8217;s opinions, subject to change, not the rule. The right and wrong set the rule/benchmark. There are 2 ways of seeing a condition : from a cell&#8217;s point of view and from a system&#8217;s point of view.<br />
The particular shade of gray, black or white which suits a person, change with conditions he is subjected to. . like, I would steal food if i am hungry and in a famine, knowing that my actions be labelled &#8220;wrong&#8221; . The right and wrong are colourless, the good/bad always coloured.<br />
Every person being unique, defines his own appeal to the system &#8212; any system applies equally to all, on a minimal interference basis. A cell thinks in terms of good/bad, the system thinks in terms of right/wrong.<br />
Now, your being lazy and your thinking that you are lazy are two different things. A lazy person has 3 paths :<br />
1. A lazy as well as unproductive person&#8217;s survival is at risk to anyone merely working harder than him.<br />
2. A person lazy in effort, yet productive enough to clear a benchmark, survives unchallenged.<br />
3. A person lazy in effort, whose productivity questions the benchmark, survives with possible threats at challenging the system.</p>
<p>Thus, the lazy person is endangered under every system, yet at times survives to challenge it.</p>
<p>P.S. &gt;&gt; A lazy person is someone who will not increase his productivity, if you raise an existing benchmark, but groan/make noise. This is the very thing that prevents a system from becoming a machine. I particularly am not willing to live in a machine. <img src='http://www.reasonforliberty.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: renegade_division</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/education/education-a-birth-right.html#comment-1770</link>
		<dc:creator>renegade_division</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 03:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1776#comment-1770</guid>
		<description>Destination Infinity:
&lt;blockquote&gt;But the author replies that 99% of these lazy people would become active!, which, at best could be called wishful thinking. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Dude you posed a hypothetical question, and author misunderstood that presumption(that there are lazy people and they won&#039;t become hard working). Although she is correct in real life, and your presumption is too unreal for real life. The truth is, most people don&#039;t want to be lazy, its just that when hard work just does not give enough return they settle down for the most comfortable position.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Destination Infinity:</p>
<blockquote><p>But the author replies that 99% of these lazy people would become active!, which, at best could be called wishful thinking. </p></blockquote>
<p>Dude you posed a hypothetical question, and author misunderstood that presumption(that there are lazy people and they won&#8217;t become hard working). Although she is correct in real life, and your presumption is too unreal for real life. The truth is, most people don&#8217;t want to be lazy, its just that when hard work just does not give enough return they settle down for the most comfortable position.</p>
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		<title>By: deadmanoncampus</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/education/education-a-birth-right.html#comment-1769</link>
		<dc:creator>deadmanoncampus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 03:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1776#comment-1769</guid>
		<description>Destination Infinity,

There is nothing in between good and bad.There is good and there is bad.Nothing in between.You might reply that there are shades of gray.But,what is gray? It is a mixture of good and bad.If you know what is good,why would you choose which is mixture of good and bad,which is evil? There is no excuse for choosing gray once you know what is good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Destination Infinity,</p>
<p>There is nothing in between good and bad.There is good and there is bad.Nothing in between.You might reply that there are shades of gray.But,what is gray? It is a mixture of good and bad.If you know what is good,why would you choose which is mixture of good and bad,which is evil? There is no excuse for choosing gray once you know what is good.</p>
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		<title>By: Destination Infinity</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/education/education-a-birth-right.html#comment-1768</link>
		<dc:creator>Destination Infinity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 01:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1776#comment-1768</guid>
		<description>@renegade_division: That&#039;s what I wanted to say too. But the author replies that 99% of these lazy people would become active!, which, at best could be called wishful thinking. And I was trying to highlight the fact that you would have all kind of people in any system, which makes it tough for us to assume perfection. If the author had said that free market is a better system than the available ones, it would have been food for thought. But she chooses to idealize a system irrespective of the type of people adopting that system! That&#039;s why I said the world is not a binary system - 0 or 1, good or bad - as there are a number of qualities inbetween the good and bad, and some times outside it too!

Destination Infinity</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@renegade_division: That&#8217;s what I wanted to say too. But the author replies that 99% of these lazy people would become active!, which, at best could be called wishful thinking. And I was trying to highlight the fact that you would have all kind of people in any system, which makes it tough for us to assume perfection. If the author had said that free market is a better system than the available ones, it would have been food for thought. But she chooses to idealize a system irrespective of the type of people adopting that system! That&#8217;s why I said the world is not a binary system &#8211; 0 or 1, good or bad &#8211; as there are a number of qualities inbetween the good and bad, and some times outside it too!</p>
<p>Destination Infinity</p>
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		<title>By: deadmanoncampus</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/education/education-a-birth-right.html#comment-1767</link>
		<dc:creator>deadmanoncampus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1776#comment-1767</guid>
		<description>renegade_divison,

What a wonderful comment!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>renegade_divison,</p>
<p>What a wonderful comment!</p>
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		<title>By: renegade_division</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/education/education-a-birth-right.html#comment-1766</link>
		<dc:creator>renegade_division</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1776#comment-1766</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Destination Infinity Said:&lt;/strong&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;If around 90% of people are lazy, will your free market succeed? &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Then they will die of hunger, poverty, illness and suffering, but why do I care because I am among the 10% of the people.

I mean before you thrash me as inhumane brute, seriously, in your example, 90% of the people are lazy, then how the hell you can expect the rest of the 10% of the people to work day and night for these lazy people?

There is no system which can feed 90% of the lazy people, no Capitalism and free market do exact opposite. Even if there is only 1 lazy person in a society, nobody will feed him unless they really wanna feed him.

This question itself is so fully loaded, its like asking, what if people worked in Capitalism, but then not eat anything, surely then they die of hunger in Capitalism, surely then your free market can&#039;t do anything about it. Yes you are right Capitalism cannot feed a person when they don&#039;t wanna eat anything, but what&#039;s your point?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Destination Infinity Said:</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>If around 90% of people are lazy, will your free market succeed? </p></blockquote>
<p>Then they will die of hunger, poverty, illness and suffering, but why do I care because I am among the 10% of the people.</p>
<p>I mean before you thrash me as inhumane brute, seriously, in your example, 90% of the people are lazy, then how the hell you can expect the rest of the 10% of the people to work day and night for these lazy people?</p>
<p>There is no system which can feed 90% of the lazy people, no Capitalism and free market do exact opposite. Even if there is only 1 lazy person in a society, nobody will feed him unless they really wanna feed him.</p>
<p>This question itself is so fully loaded, its like asking, what if people worked in Capitalism, but then not eat anything, surely then they die of hunger in Capitalism, surely then your free market can&#8217;t do anything about it. Yes you are right Capitalism cannot feed a person when they don&#8217;t wanna eat anything, but what&#8217;s your point?</p>
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		<title>By: city of night</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/education/education-a-birth-right.html#comment-1765</link>
		<dc:creator>city of night</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1776#comment-1765</guid>
		<description>re : infinity &gt;&gt;
 &quot;And the assumption that private education is better. &quot;
 .. I think any organisation  improves, if the factors hampering it&#039;s growth are removed. The current govt. policies include this fact in their agenda. If the heart has to do more work to meet a strained body&#039;s requirements, it does develop more muscle, and increases in size and functional capacity. Thus  middlemen can consume some blood and expect the body to rise up and still manage normalcy, and claim the increase in heart size as &quot;benefits&quot;  of their doings.. yet this does not stretch to infinity, there comes a time when the heart quits the struggle for normalcy and collapses. If only the factors damaging the vital systems are reduced, the body lives with the disease in a neutral state. This is the way many parasites choose to thrive for free. Just because a person is functionally normal, doesn&#039;t mean that he is devoid of disease.

re: DMOC &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&quot;Education doesn’t grow simply in the nature. It is not absorbed from the atmosphere. It is a service and it ought to be provided by some if others ought to receive them as a gift. .&quot;  &gt;&gt;&gt;
... Education is a by-product of discovery. One man takes himself from A to C and the other learns what A, B and C mean.. he continues from C to E, or passes on C to others who shouldn&#039;t have to start from A. Thus education empowers the natural curiosity, which every person is born with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re : infinity &gt;&gt;<br />
 &#8221;And the assumption that private education is better. &#8221;<br />
 .. I think any organisation  improves, if the factors hampering it&#8217;s growth are removed. The current govt. policies include this fact in their agenda. If the heart has to do more work to meet a strained body&#8217;s requirements, it does develop more muscle, and increases in size and functional capacity. Thus  middlemen can consume some blood and expect the body to rise up and still manage normalcy, and claim the increase in heart size as &#8220;benefits&#8221;  of their doings.. yet this does not stretch to infinity, there comes a time when the heart quits the struggle for normalcy and collapses. If only the factors damaging the vital systems are reduced, the body lives with the disease in a neutral state. This is the way many parasites choose to thrive for free. Just because a person is functionally normal, doesn&#8217;t mean that he is devoid of disease.</p>
<p>re: DMOC &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;<br />
&#8220;Education doesn’t grow simply in the nature. It is not absorbed from the atmosphere. It is a service and it ought to be provided by some if others ought to receive them as a gift. .&#8221;  &gt;&gt;&gt;<br />
&#8230; Education is a by-product of discovery. One man takes himself from A to C and the other learns what A, B and C mean.. he continues from C to E, or passes on C to others who shouldn&#8217;t have to start from A. Thus education empowers the natural curiosity, which every person is born with.</p>
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		<title>By: Destination Infinity</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/education/education-a-birth-right.html#comment-1764</link>
		<dc:creator>Destination Infinity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 17:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1776#comment-1764</guid>
		<description>I can understand owners want to work to increase their production capacity, but what is the incentive for labour? Secondly, if more money is made by more production, that doesn&#039;t automatically mean more prosperity. In fact the automobile manufacturers are today suffering because of such excessive production. But you may argue that such a situation arised due to Govt. taxes! which neither of us can disprove. Thirdly, the world doesn&#039;t work like a computer which operates in binaries. There will always be elements whose motive is greed, fraud, cheating, robbery, blackmail, wer thirsty, corrupt etc. in a free market too. Just like they will be in any other market.

But as far as this post goes, I accept a lot of points written by you except maybe
points like everyone in a free market will be able to afford private education etc. And the assumption that private education is better. Let us for a moment look at the hoards of engineering colleges(private) across the nation. Do you think about 90% of them are here to provide quality education? Or do you think the technical education and evaluation is even upto the mark, considering that most of these engineering colleges are privately run?

Destination Infinity</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can understand owners want to work to increase their production capacity, but what is the incentive for labour? Secondly, if more money is made by more production, that doesn&#8217;t automatically mean more prosperity. In fact the automobile manufacturers are today suffering because of such excessive production. But you may argue that such a situation arised due to Govt. taxes! which neither of us can disprove. Thirdly, the world doesn&#8217;t work like a computer which operates in binaries. There will always be elements whose motive is greed, fraud, cheating, robbery, blackmail, wer thirsty, corrupt etc. in a free market too. Just like they will be in any other market.</p>
<p>But as far as this post goes, I accept a lot of points written by you except maybe<br />
points like everyone in a free market will be able to afford private education etc. And the assumption that private education is better. Let us for a moment look at the hoards of engineering colleges(private) across the nation. Do you think about 90% of them are here to provide quality education? Or do you think the technical education and evaluation is even upto the mark, considering that most of these engineering colleges are privately run?</p>
<p>Destination Infinity</p>
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		<title>By: Unpretentious Diva</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/education/education-a-birth-right.html#comment-1763</link>
		<dc:creator>Unpretentious Diva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:29:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1776#comment-1763</guid>
		<description>Those 90% people are lazy because of the socialist welfare state and the middle path of mixed economy which people support almost always.

The moment free-market capitalism will be established, 99% of those 90% lazy people will start working for incrreasing their production capacity. About the rest 1% of the 90% of current lazies, they can always seek for voluntary charity.

Who says a capitalist society won&#039;t support naturally impaired, unable and cripples? On the other hand, the genuine needy will get the best help possible in much more efficient way than a welfare state can ever provide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those 90% people are lazy because of the socialist welfare state and the middle path of mixed economy which people support almost always.</p>
<p>The moment free-market capitalism will be established, 99% of those 90% lazy people will start working for incrreasing their production capacity. About the rest 1% of the 90% of current lazies, they can always seek for voluntary charity.</p>
<p>Who says a capitalist society won&#8217;t support naturally impaired, unable and cripples? On the other hand, the genuine needy will get the best help possible in much more efficient way than a welfare state can ever provide.</p>
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		<title>By: Destination Infinity</title>
		<link>http://www.reasonforliberty.com/education/education-a-birth-right.html#comment-1762</link>
		<dc:creator>Destination Infinity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:19:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=1776#comment-1762</guid>
		<description>// On a free market, no one other than lazy bums would be incapabl of providing their children with education // 


That is all the problem. Whether in free markets or otherwise, there is a big hoard of the type of people you mentioned. If around 90% of people are lazy, will your free market succeed? 


Destination Infinity</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>// On a free market, no one other than lazy bums would be incapabl of providing their children with education // </p>
<p>That is all the problem. Whether in free markets or otherwise, there is a big hoard of the type of people you mentioned. If around 90% of people are lazy, will your free market succeed? </p>
<p>Destination Infinity</p>
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