Comments on: Issue of Date Rape

By: SEXUAL HARASSMENT

SEXUAL HARASSMENT — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:55:33 +0000

Most of us treat rape as entertainment. But we can’t imagine that how they feel who faced this problem. No one knows what happened backstage. Most of the peoples are not aware about sexual harassment and its very important to make them aware this will help us to decrease occurring sexual harassment in our country.

By: Unpretentious Diva

Unpretentious Diva — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:37:37 +0000

well, when u get sedatives through drinks you won’t have power to use gun . This is applicable to both men and women.

That is what I said GP, even men can be vulnerable if you use sedatives so you don’t need to say that women are vulnerable, both men women are equally vulnerable, every living species is vulnerable sometime or other. For all other situations as I already said

Don’t sell the idea of vulnerability, sensuality and male fun, it can be dangerous as I have got a gun!

By: GP

GP — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:02:20 +0000

well, when u get sedatives through drinks you won’t have power to use gun . This is applicable to both men and women.

and I am NOT sellling idea of vulnerability, sensuality and male fun.

By: Unpretentious Diva

Unpretentious Diva — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:21:07 +0000

Ever heard of a Gun?

That is the real power. I have mentioned some males being raped and killed brutally by women.

“Don’t sell the idea of vulnerability, sensuality and male fun, it can be dangerous you know, I have a gun!”

Now that rhymes nice!

By: GP

GP — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:18:17 +0000

if a woman claims she was raped, current laws suggest that the accused should be arrested, and it is the burden of accused to prove that there was no rape and he is innocent, and that is as difficult as proving that there happened a rape, that is, if woman claims, the man is destined to be punished No excuse for him.
==> I see what you mean here. In fact article 498A is heavily misused by women.
Even men can not remain physically strong all time so don’t go over that. I mean what the hell! if you wanna mention about pregnancy, woman is strong enough to deny and or abort the child. it is her will! About other things. No living being of whatever gender can remain physically strong at all times.
==> Nope I am not talking about pregnancy , neither I am saying every gender will remain strong forever. My only point was - physical weakness of women make her easy target for rape.
If you talk about - empowering women with self protection training then also I don’t think its of much use not especially to prevent marital rape case

By: Unpretentious Diva

Unpretentious Diva — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 05:47:50 +0000

I think “Marital Rape” is very complicated thing even to admitt in court of law

I would like to say that - as a woman its not always possible to be strong not atleast physically!

Even men can not remain physically strong all time so don’t go over that. I mean what the hell! if you wanna mention about pregnancy, woman is strong enough to deny and or abort the child. it is her will! About other things. No living being of whatever gender can remain physically strong at all times.

By: GP

GP — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 05:23:33 +0000

Never Mind!..Let’s stick to the topic.
Honestly, I think “Marital Rape” is very complicated thing even to admitt in court of law that there is thing called “Marital Rape” coz its very difficult to prove in court that husband had intercourse with her wife without her consent, even the matching medical evidences(***** stains from clothes,genitals of victim) as well as circumstantial evidences are completely inconclusive in court because they are husband and wife and not strangers to each other and its extremely unlikely for judges to accept that its case of rape and not just consesual sex between husband and wife.
2) When you say that - “Woman shouldn’t consider herself weak and she was weak and opressed just bcoz she think so”
— > I would like to say that - as a woman its not always possible to be strong not atleast physically!
— > and exactly for the same reason - she can’t protect herself from — > being raped by her husband
Now Regarding your point of about mental toughness
— > I would say there are several ways and means to break women no — > matter how much mentally though they are which I am sure you must knowing too!
(Please Note : I am not justifying or supporting these acts. )
So my points are -
1)There is no hard and fast rule on - how to prevent a Marital rape Its all up to that person , how he/she chooses his/her life partner and the way they treat themselves.
2) In court its extremely difficult to prove it

By: Unpretentious Diva

Unpretentious Diva — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:04:06 +0000

@ GP

As i said earlier, until you wont read and understand Virtue of Selfishness, your all reading is incomplete.
Stick with topic!

By: Unpretentious Diva

Unpretentious Diva — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:07:43 +0000

@ GP, trust me you will never understand any meaning of Shankaracharya’s statement until you wont understand the right meaning of Virtue of Slefishness.

I am sorry all your readings have provided you lesser good. But anyways i am happy atleast you tried.

Please avoid suggesting me what should I read, I am already a Vedic Schollar. you can have any sort of debate over any Vedic atheistic literature Nyaya, Samkhya, Mimaamsa, Advaita, Dvaita Taittreya Vednata, or you may pull up the major scriptures right any of them Rig, Sam, Yajur Arthav. but not here.
Here you need to keep alignment with the post for which you are commenting.

Enjoy!

By: GP

GP — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 11:47:40 +0000

@Unpretentious
No action is rape until proven beyond doubts that yes it is/was a rape.
No accused is victim until proven, but in cases of dogmatic state rule of sexual offense, you will seldom get a chance to show your innocence, if the girl says you are a rapist, you become a rapist.
<<<>>>>>>>
I must say, Its not Ayn Rand who was first to say that Selfishness is Virtue.
It was Shankaracharya who mentioned Ahem Brahma Asi.
<<<< Please try avoiding quoting such statements of his holiness Adi Shankaracharya in your post if you don’t fully comprehend them coz you are simply ruining its essence in date rape post.>>>
@Writer/all commentators
I have two questions for you.
1)How a married woman can PREVENT a marital rape?
2)In case she couldn’t prevent marital rape..Is it possible for her to LEGALLY PROVE that she was raped by her husband?( I think its not.)
I think its not possible to prevent or prove it in court but I wud like to know if you think otherwise.

By: sunny

sunny — Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:52:32 +0000

But that happens many a times, such cases have been discovered many a times, even completely false cases have also been discovered.
Things happen either way, when we say we trust our friends, we should be confident to this level?
Its ones determination, or judgment when he/she decides how, much be-friend,with the person.
And to a simple step, if you cannot control your/or friends charging on you, at that situation, I would say you have lost control over everything (may be even under influence of drug/alcohol etc.).
-sunny

By: Unpretentious Diva

Unpretentious Diva — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 01:23:20 +0000

I am not convinced, with the fact that weather it is rape or not, is decided on later stage, after gaining senses or feeling guilt of action.

But that happens many a times, such cases have been discovered many a times, even completely false cases have also been discovered.

By: sunny

sunny — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:35:46 +0000

I actually read your entire post. I was convinced, with the spurge things can go wrong. I am not convinced, with the fact that weather it is rape or not, is decided on later stage, after gaining senses or feeling guilt of action.

By: Giuseppe

Giuseppe — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 00:27:31 +0000

To solidify the law in this case, innocent until proven guilty should be held to a reasonable standard. That is, the DA should have to demonstrate that the girl had no intent to engage in sexual activity prior to going out on the date, and that there was nothing which occurred during the date which could suggest otherwise.

Even so, this is a ridiculously complicated issue that leaves no simple solution. It’s clearly not fair that Mr. Frat Boy ends up in jail for having consensual sex that Ms. Sorority Girl changed her mind about the next day; but clearly there’s numerous real instances of this crime as well.

By: Sagar

Sagar — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 11:28:28 +0000

Good one, kinda debate also.

According to me date rape cannot be considered for first degree felony as it is a complex situation involving a lot of controversies. I think flexibility of law is necessary in this situation. A thorough understanding of case is required to take a decision. But the most important thing is that a female should feel the responsibility for her own safety and security to avoid such kind of situation.

By: renegade_division

renegade_division — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 19:11:27 +0000

@Mayuresh Said:

“Absolute liberty is impossible” because we are bound by nature, we are part of nature. So if one says “Give me liberty or give me death”, he won’t be getting either of the things. And will land into unhappiness.

Dude I don’t get it, why do you hang around this website, you never agree with anything on this website, but you never defend an opposing point either, its like you just like to oppose things, “rebel without a cause”!
Take for example there is no point in talking about “absolute liberty is impossible” in this thread, there is no relation. Why don’t you simply come to the point what is it you disagree with Libertarian platform.
About absolute Liberty being impossible, is that a call for marginal tyranny to be introduced in our platform? I mean lets presume absolute Liberty is impossible, are we anywhere near it? Are we living in a near-absolute Libertarian society? Are you saying that we are the maximum free we can be, and being more free is impossible? I mean seriously what is your point?
“Hey guys I think we achieved enough Liberty, I don’t think so you can push any more further, because absolute Liberty is impossible”.
OR
“Hey guys since Absolute Liberty is impossible, you must try for Absolute Tyranny”
OR
“Hey guys absolute Liberty is impossible, if you do not support that, then whatever you support that that is impossible”.

By: Unpretentious Diva

Unpretentious Diva — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 18:16:19 +0000

“Absolute liberty is impossible” because we are bound by nature, we are part of nature. So if one says “Give me liberty or give me death”, he won’t be getting either of the things. And will land into unhappiness.

You do not understand the meaning of LIBERTY. Liberty is not going against nature, Liberty is freedom to use the nature for rational selfish beneficial purpose.

I entertained your wrong idiotic ideas this time, i won’t do it again, you are disturbing my readers who have subscribed for this post, they are intimidated by any of your impertinent and not-related-to-this=post comment.

get a grip, you make any other comment not related to the post, i will delete it. i deleted previous two.

By: Mayuresh

Mayuresh — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 18:11:21 +0000

Rand was an end in herself. And she is no more……

You can change your statement to “every man is an end in himself, but his thoughts remain”. If one is going to leave some non-material thing behind, could he be called selfish? No, for sure.

“Absolute liberty is impossible” because we are bound by nature, we are part of nature. So if one says “Give me liberty or give me death”, he won’t be getting either of the things. And will land into unhappiness.

By: Unpretentious Diva

Unpretentious Diva — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:58:06 +0000

but see around what is happening to young men arrested in the name of suspicion and their biodata including their famlies,with photos are published in national dalies and are branded anti-nationals and terrorists..Is that right?NO, but it happens as we indians are bloody too hypocritical..

True, but saying “we ALL indians are hypocrite” is wrong.
I am Indian so you are, I am not hypocrite, I won’t let you be hypocrite, you should be a Rani Lakshmi Bai, a Sarojini Naidu, If you become a epitome of braveness and truth, you promote freedom for million more girls around you. That is the right way of prevailing justice, by providing examples of Individual strength, by making charities and cases of Pity, you will never be able to help any woman in distress, by promoting state laws, you will ruin womanhood.
We are Indians and we are Not Hypocrite.

About UAPA law, we criticized it here http://www.reasonforliberty.com/current-affairs/india-heading-towards-state-terrorism.html

If you check our category of Terrorism, you will get some real sparkling facts and theories behind all this hype of terrorism.
I suggest check it out and browse, you may not agree with certain points, but you will find every point raised properly pertinent.
http://www.reasonforliberty.com/category/terrorism

About Judicial System, I am saying again, Justice is never possible under dogmatic hypocrite, unequal state laws.
Private judiciary process will certainly be much better option
http://www.reasonforliberty.com/current-affairs/the-prospects-of-private-judicial-system.html

By: Liberty Speaks

Liberty Speaks — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 14:51:30 +0000

Laws that we have today come forth from egalitarian conception of society. Laws are thus generally designed to balance the so called natural inequalities that exist in society to suit the egalitarian concept of justice. Now if we remove equality as the base value and replace it with freedom interpretation of many laws will change in itself. Now in a rape case the main question of contention would become how was the freedom of consent of women violated. the cases where the girl willingly lowered her judgement capacity and allowed intercourse to happen at a different/ diluted level of consciosness, claiming it to be a rape when she regains consciousness is questionable. At the same time it has to be examined if the girl took the drug/ alcohol willingly or was forcefully or covertly administerd. If so then it would come in the purview of rape. Additionally all such cases will come under category of deliberate crime. Rape may be instinctual, man may not have had any intention of doing it but goes about doing it in the rage of passion. It is a crime indeed but passion crime is far less malicious than crime of intent wherein the whole episode was well planned and executed. Such distinction again is absent in present law.

the post also brings forth how laws in itself becomes a perpetuator and sustainer of such inequality in society. Between Men and women, there exist no inexplicable inequality except strenght. Strength can be definitely used as a mode of leverage to violate the freedom of consent. Now had freedom and induvidualism been the base value of these so called feminist, they would have fought for means to aid them protect this freedom. They would have advocated for martial art training for women, a technique that very effectively equates strenght. Other Means would be possession of decapcitating agents like pepper sprays etc. They may also fight for the right to possess fire arm, it too can act as a great leveller.
there is an age old saying prevention is better than cure, now all these are means for prevention. Laws can be there now to address only the circumstances where woman/man was unable to prevent this violation from happening at the first place.
Interpretation of laws must be circumstantial, and not blanket…but for all this the egalitarian ghost has to exist our collective consciousness

By: Unpretentious Diva

Unpretentious Diva — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:19:09 +0000

But with the view that selfishness is at the center of all actions (love, sex, child bearing and development, his/her education etc.), and competition is the basic thing for which humans socialize, and not co-operation; we would have never been able to create meanings.

it is your lack of understanding of RATIONAL SELFISHNESS. without rational selfishness, neither language, nor co-operation, nor meaning nor anything else was possible.

it is in rational selfish interest of human to be socialized and free. Civilization is the freedom of Man from Men. Civilization is a selfish process.
Animals live in heard and groups because of their RATIONAL SELFISHNESS, they do not possess rational faculty to guide them towards individual freedom, they are bound to live in heard and groups for their selfish profit safety cause, every animal in a heard gains selfish pleasure, security and profits by being in the group. it is all selfish, every biological process stand on selfishness. Sense of self, is life. Hit a dog, it will run away, trying to save itself, Dog is selfish, he has sense of self. You are missing sense of self, you are loosing life.

By: Nimmy

Nimmy — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:09:03 +0000

Yes women can rape men,yesteray’s newspaper has a news on three women abducting and raping a man..But again,tell me what is the percentage difference betwen men raping women and women raping men?The answer speaks volume on its own.
Yes,education isn’t a benchmark,as in our antion Graduates and postgradutaes undergo domestic abuse and rapes..but there lies my point..If education can bring any little empowerment and sense,and if this is the condition of educated women,what is to be expected out of uneducated women who have never seen a world outside their village?
So tell me what your point is..Are you telling me that a woman who gets beaten by husband or MIL or is on the verge of getting burned to death by a ‘stove-burn’ ,should go to police stattion,file an FIR,go back home,eait for constables to come for inquest,file an FIR,take it to court,wait for nth session (maybe days,maybe months,maybe years) for the judge to pass a verdict on whether there was any real abuse or not…Excuse me,i find it funny and i don’t know how to reply..

>In fact such laws doesn’t help women, more so, women suffers from such laws.

So what,if they are wrong,let them be convicted,no matter if they are men or women

atleast let no state law make an accused to be a criminal even before proving anything

Agreed,but see around what is happening to young men arrested in the name of suspicion and their biodata including their famlies,with photos are published in national dalies and are branded anti-nationals and terrorists..Is that right?NO, but it happens as we indians are bloody too hypocritical..
Finally,this is not about feminism,but about jsutice and fairness…
Good day

please delete my last comment(same words) but it not readable without blockquote..

By: Mayuresh

Mayuresh — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 07:54:06 +0000

But with the view that selfishness is at the center of all actions (love, sex, child bearing and development, his/her education etc.), and competition is the basic thing for which humans socialize, and not co-operation; we would have never been able to create meanings.

By: Unpretentious Diva

Unpretentious Diva — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 07:39:26 +0000

Mutual benefit certainly means SELFISHNESS, The Rational Selfishness.

There is no action in human life which he can take selflessly, he is always selfish until he lives.
Once he is dead, he is not selfish anymore, he lost his SELF.

One more thing I must say, Its not Ayn Rand who was first to say that Selfishness is Virtue.
It was Shankaracharya who mentioned Ahem Brahma Asi. The philosophy of Virtue of Selfishness is much more Indian than western, And I am a fan of Vedic philosophies. Wanna debate? (make your own platform and invite me to debate. Its neither the platform nor the post for that issue.
\
About your doubts of Artificial Vs Natural, get a proper hold of that here http://www.reasonforliberty.com/reason/artificial-vs-natural.html

and your comment certainly does not hold any relation with the post.

By: Mayuresh

Mayuresh — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 07:37:26 +0000

Rather the need is females should understand their own responsibility and capacity to safeguard their independence.
…………….
Is it assumed that rape is what males do to females?
We live within the assumptions. Trust is also an assumption.

I do not believe in casual sex. For me sex is the most worthy expression of love. And love is Selfish attitude. I can love only that person whom I find worthy enough to be loved, I do not waste my love.
……………..
These are Ayn Rand words. And since you are Ayn Rand reader, selfishness is the most natural thing for you. For a person who does not understand English, it may not be so.

What exactly is law meant for?
Is law there to stop humans from “doing what comes natural”?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexuality#Coercive_sex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociobiological_theories_of_rape#Rape_as_an_adaptation_among_animals

But what is “natural”? We being part of nature and civilization at the same time we cannot distinguish between what is natural and what is not.
All our thinking is heteronomous, imposed on us.
There are no meanings when the newborn is given birth. Our ideas are within the box, where the meanings are created; no one can go out of this box. Rape, crime, law are all meanings.
Meanings were necessary for humans to socialize and form societies. Within this context, these problems could be solved with mutual agreements. Mutual agreements do not mean mutual selfishness, but mutual need to socialize and keep socializing in the long run.