Comments on: ‘Quantum mechanics and Philosophy of Free Will http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html Because everything has a reason! Sat, 14 Jan 2012 17:52:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Randy http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-179171 Randy Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:08:16 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-179171 Einstein was NOT a determinist! When you claim that you are only setting up a straw version of him as Born did, just for the fun of knocking it down. Einstein was NOT a determinist!
When you claim that you are only setting up a straw version of him as Born did, just for the fun of knocking it down.

]]> By: Sallie M. http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-4760 Sallie M. Tue, 24 Aug 2010 00:55:54 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-4760 "Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood a single word. - Niels Bohr" Niels, I feel the same way about Sarah Palin. “Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood a single word.
- Niels Bohr”

Niels, I feel the same way about Sarah Palin.

]]> By: consciousness http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-3386 consciousness Tue, 26 Jan 2010 01:36:27 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-3386 I understand your perspective on this, but I don't think that quantum physics in any way takes away from Metaphysics and Mysticsim. It is science and I believe we have to find ways to integrate science and spirituality rather than separate the two. .-= consciousness´s last blog ..<a href="http://bluelotusliving.com/2010/01/21/deliberate-creation-in-harmony-and-well-being/comment-page-1/#comment-388" rel="nofollow">Comment on Deliberate Creation in Harmony and Well-Being by Tweets that mention Deliberate Creation in Harmony and Well-Being | Blue Lotus Living™ - Let the Creative Spirit Move You -- Topsy.com</a> =-. I understand your perspective on this, but I don’t think that quantum physics in any way takes away from Metaphysics and Mysticsim. It is science and I believe we have to find ways to integrate science and spirituality rather than separate the two.
.-= consciousness´s last blog ..Comment on Deliberate Creation in Harmony and Well-Being by Tweets that mention Deliberate Creation in Harmony and Well-Being | Blue Lotus Living™ – Let the Creative Spirit Move You — Topsy.com =-.

]]> By: Unpretentious Diva http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-199 Unpretentious Diva Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:59:05 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-199 An explanation of Quantum Physics by Richard Dawkins!                                                                <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbWcKg06evM&feature=related" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbWcKg06evM&feature=related</a> An explanation of Quantum Physics by Richard Dawkins!                                                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbWcKg06evM&feature=related

]]> By: Unpretentious Diva http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-198 Unpretentious Diva Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:58:07 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-198 An explanation of Quantum Physics by Richard Dawkins! An explanation of Quantum Physics by Richard Dawkins!

]]> By: NiN http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-197 NiN Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:42:03 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-197 Errr..Is it ok if I just I got lost amidst that post of yours.. :( It all bounced through the top of my head. :( :( Errr..Is it ok if I just I got lost amidst that post of yours.. :(

It all bounced through the top of my head. :( :(

]]> By: Ever Hopeful http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-196 Ever Hopeful Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:51:00 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-196 HI Gargi<br/><br/>I came here after being referred by Alok<br/><br/>I must compliment you on your research and putting forward your viewpoints so strongly.<br/><br/>I have thoruroughly enjoyed your and alok debate and I am in favour of the points raised by Alok.<br/><br/>I must compliment you people for digging your head into such mature topics HI Gargi

I came here after being referred by Alok

I must compliment you on your research and putting forward your viewpoints so strongly.

I have thoruroughly enjoyed your and alok debate and I am in favour of the points raised by Alok.

I must compliment you people for digging your head into such mature topics

]]> By: unpretentious_diva http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-195 unpretentious_diva Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:10:00 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-195 @<b>Alok,</b><br/> yep I agree that electron's motion is described by wave functions, yet they aren't the fundamental particles. They are the first generation particles along with neutrino.<br/><i>Thus, the theory basically assigns a certain randomness to the electron. Something akin to the concept of Free Will. I'm not saying that the electron has free will. That is just one way to describe the uncertainty principle.</i><br/>It is just a way, but basically QM has nothing to do with Human free-will.<br/><i><br/>We need not justify free will through any theory. </i><br/><br/>True and that is the point.<br/><i><br/>You don't need to make anyone (determinist or whatever) understand free will through its justification in quantum theory.</i> <br/>What I create and write is My choice, which may/may not be a requirement. I wrote this for my pleasure.<br/><br/><br/>@Your second comment, <br/>I agree with that. @Alok,
yep I agree that electron’s motion is described by wave functions, yet they aren’t the fundamental particles. They are the first generation particles along with neutrino.
Thus, the theory basically assigns a certain randomness to the electron. Something akin to the concept of Free Will. I’m not saying that the electron has free will. That is just one way to describe the uncertainty principle.
It is just a way, but basically QM has nothing to do with Human free-will.

We need not justify free will through any theory.

True and that is the point.

You don’t need to make anyone (determinist or whatever) understand free will through its justification in quantum theory.
What I create and write is My choice, which may/may not be a requirement. I wrote this for my pleasure.

@Your second comment,
I agree with that.

]]> By: Alok http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-194 Alok Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:47:00 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-194 Something else I'd like to say:<br/><br/>Determinism might not necessarily contradict free will. You need to understand this. <br/><br/>Someone might not necessarily be denying free will when he/she's trying to understand and describe some phenomenon. In fact, free will could very well be modeled (The field of Artificial Intelligence).<br/><br/>Just saying that we would never be able to determine the velocity and position of the electron simultaneously is a statement that restricts our progress.<br/><br/>We need to look further inside, think rather than accept facts. That's what Einstein's stand is, I believe.<br/><br/>Let me quote Wikipedia:<br/><br/>"It is a popular misconception that determinism necessarily entails that humanity or individual humans have no influence on the future and its events (a position known as Fatalism)" Something else I’d like to say:

Determinism might not necessarily contradict free will. You need to understand this.

Someone might not necessarily be denying free will when he/she’s trying to understand and describe some phenomenon. In fact, free will could very well be modeled (The field of Artificial Intelligence).

Just saying that we would never be able to determine the velocity and position of the electron simultaneously is a statement that restricts our progress.

We need to look further inside, think rather than accept facts. That’s what Einstein’s stand is, I believe.

Let me quote Wikipedia:

“It is a popular misconception that determinism necessarily entails that humanity or individual humans have no influence on the future and its events (a position known as Fatalism)”

]]> By: Alok http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-193 Alok Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:31:00 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-193 <b> Diva,</b><br/><br/>The Electron is a particle whose behaviour is described by Quantum Mechanics.<br/><br/>It describes the electron as a wave-particle, all the exact parameters of which are supposed to be indeterminable precisely. Thus, the theory basically <i>assigns</i> a certain randomness to the electron. Something akin to the concept of Free Will. I'm not saying that the electron has free will. That is just one way to describe the uncertainty principle.<br/><br/>Like all theories, this one is limited by its assumptions, and a stronger set could produce a much better description.<br/><br/>The concepts of free will and rational decisions are our creations. They are concepts. We use them to describe ourselves. We need not justify free will through any theory. <br/><br/>All we need to do is to understand that free will is a manifestation of randomness, and rationality is an ability we possess, which has led to our species remaining the fittest. It is the result of evolution. <br/><br/>You don't need to make anyone (determinist or whatever) understand free will through its justification in quantum theory. Anyone who knows about the concept can understand it. That is the power of the brain. So those who deny it, they're just denying an ability they possess. And if they look into it objectively, they will find that it is something that they own too. <br/><br/>Don't attach dogma to it.<br/><br/>What we believe in, that's what our creations reflect, even scientific theories. <br/><br/>Nice post, but a bit mixed up, I must say. :) Diva,

The Electron is a particle whose behaviour is described by Quantum Mechanics.

It describes the electron as a wave-particle, all the exact parameters of which are supposed to be indeterminable precisely. Thus, the theory basically assigns a certain randomness to the electron. Something akin to the concept of Free Will. I’m not saying that the electron has free will. That is just one way to describe the uncertainty principle.

Like all theories, this one is limited by its assumptions, and a stronger set could produce a much better description.

The concepts of free will and rational decisions are our creations. They are concepts. We use them to describe ourselves. We need not justify free will through any theory.

All we need to do is to understand that free will is a manifestation of randomness, and rationality is an ability we possess, which has led to our species remaining the fittest. It is the result of evolution.

You don’t need to make anyone (determinist or whatever) understand free will through its justification in quantum theory. Anyone who knows about the concept can understand it. That is the power of the brain. So those who deny it, they’re just denying an ability they possess. And if they look into it objectively, they will find that it is something that they own too.

Don’t attach dogma to it.

What we believe in, that’s what our creations reflect, even scientific theories.

Nice post, but a bit mixed up, I must say. :)

]]> By: Rohan http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-192 Rohan Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:07:00 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-192 Yes, but, as you alluded to it yourself in your post (followed by a rebuttal that I did not quite understand), the very act of "choice" could have been predicted prior to the act of making it, IF you knew enough about the system in question (in this case, a human), and its environment and inputs - just like any program. Granted, we may be so complex that no intelligence may ever be able to actually do this in practice, but that's a different matter, no? Yes, but, as you alluded to it yourself in your post (followed by a rebuttal that I did not quite understand), the very act of “choice” could have been predicted prior to the act of making it, IF you knew enough about the system in question (in this case, a human), and its environment and inputs – just like any program. Granted, we may be so complex that no intelligence may ever be able to actually do this in practice, but that’s a different matter, no?

]]> By: unpretentious_diva http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-191 unpretentious_diva Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:44:00 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-191 Yet, I know why you asked this silly question.<br/><br/>You must understand that QM has nothing to do with philosophy of liberty. and you must also understand that electron is NOT a quantum particle.<br/><br/>Yet, the people who co-relates determinism with the negation of liberty and tries to restrict human being as not a free Individual but a social animal, must understand that Quantum Particles do exhibits free-movements irrespective of any deterministic force. Yet, I know why you asked this silly question.

You must understand that QM has nothing to do with philosophy of liberty. and you must also understand that electron is NOT a quantum particle.

Yet, the people who co-relates determinism with the negation of liberty and tries to restrict human being as not a free Individual but a social animal, must understand that Quantum Particles do exhibits free-movements irrespective of any deterministic force.

]]> By: unpretentious_diva http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-190 unpretentious_diva Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:40:00 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-190 @alok<br/><br/>Read my answer for your comment again.<br/><br/>Is elektron a Human's name?<br/>if it is, then that Human with name elektron surely have free-will.<br/><br/>Now about free-will...<br/><i><b>Every man builds his world in his own image. He has the power to choose, but no power to escape the necessity of choice. </b></i><br/>By Ayn Rand.<br/>Freewill is that power, the power to choose rationally (or otherwise, say randomly). Yet no Individual has power to escape the necessity to choose.<br/>Try to grasp it and understand.<br/><br/>Now, if electron is not human but a sub-atomic particle, it has no brain. It is non-living. @alok

Read my answer for your comment again.

Is elektron a Human’s name?
if it is, then that Human with name elektron surely have free-will.

Now about free-will…
Every man builds his world in his own image. He has the power to choose, but no power to escape the necessity of choice.
By Ayn Rand.
Freewill is that power, the power to choose rationally (or otherwise, say randomly). Yet no Individual has power to escape the necessity to choose.
Try to grasp it and understand.

Now, if electron is not human but a sub-atomic particle, it has no brain. It is non-living.

]]> By: Alok http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-189 Alok Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:02:00 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-189 <b> Diva,</b><br/><br/>So do you think an Electron has Free Will too? Diva,

So do you think an Electron has Free Will too?

]]> By: Rohan http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-188 Rohan Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:46:00 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-188 Hmm... I came upon this by accident. Reminded me of an article I wrote many years ago. The first few paragraphs for the link below are about Arthur C Clarke, and then starts the Free Will article. Do take a look if you have the time...<br/><br/>http://drfronkensteen.blogspot.com/2008/03/arthur-c-clarke-1917-2008.html Hmm… I came upon this by accident. Reminded me of an article I wrote many years ago. The first few paragraphs for the link below are about Arthur C Clarke, and then starts the Free Will article. Do take a look if you have the time…

http://drfronkensteen.blogspot.com/2008/03/arthur-c-clarke-1917-2008.html

]]> By: unpretentious_diva http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-187 unpretentious_diva Sat, 19 Apr 2008 13:51:00 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-187 @alok<br/><br/>Free-Will is the natural birth right of human to use his rational faculty(Mind) senses and consciousness to understand the reason and rationalize his ways to innovate rationally for his survival, progression, easement, happiness, welfare.and increment in knowledge of reality. @alok

Free-Will is the natural birth right of human to use his rational faculty(Mind) senses and consciousness to understand the reason and rationalize his ways to innovate rationally for his survival, progression, easement, happiness, welfare.and increment in knowledge of reality.

]]> By: Alok http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-186 Alok Sat, 19 Apr 2008 10:29:00 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-186 One question for you:<br/><br/>Can you define Free Will? One question for you:

Can you define Free Will?

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-185 Anonymous Fri, 07 Mar 2008 17:16:00 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-185 if you don't think mysticism and quantum mechanics have anything in common, then you don't really understand either. if you don’t think mysticism and quantum mechanics have anything in common, then you don’t really understand either.

]]> By: pandia http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-184 pandia Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:00:00 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-184 in that case, if i can put it this way, u dont err in philosphy, u err in logic. what u want to say and what u convey are two different things. its also possible, i am not reading it properly. but then...<br/>anyways....if i can say, please do read geetha again. i thought it junk too, till i reread it some months ago, and i found it very enriching. ofcourse, it is clear our logic dont go together, so its fine, if u still insist geetha doesnt contain much stuff!!! in that case, if i can put it this way, u dont err in philosphy, u err in logic. what u want to say and what u convey are two different things. its also possible, i am not reading it properly. but then…
anyways….if i can say, please do read geetha again. i thought it junk too, till i reread it some months ago, and i found it very enriching. ofcourse, it is clear our logic dont go together, so its fine, if u still insist geetha doesnt contain much stuff!!!

]]> By: unpretentious_diva http://www.reasonforliberty.com/atheism/quantum-mechanics-and-philosophy-of-free-will.html#comment-183 unpretentious_diva Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:24:00 +0000 http://www.reasonforliberty.com/?p=99#comment-183 @above.<br/>There's nothing to get offended about, Yet i would like to say that<br/>You never understood what it is about. reread and then may be you will get some sense about what I am talking of. It is absolutely about Einstien Bohr and Hiesenberg and the debates between them regarding their own contentions with philosophy.<br/><br/>anyways! about geeta, I have read alot more than that including vedas and upanishadas.<br/>They have nothing potential of use, I have read much better than that.<br/>But This post is NOT at all about free-will and determinism.<br/>It is about Quantum mechanics, and Bohr, einstien and hiesenberg's philosophical views regarding it @above.
There’s nothing to get offended about, Yet i would like to say that
You never understood what it is about. reread and then may be you will get some sense about what I am talking of. It is absolutely about Einstien Bohr and Hiesenberg and the debates between them regarding their own contentions with philosophy.

anyways! about geeta, I have read alot more than that including vedas and upanishadas.
They have nothing potential of use, I have read much better than that.
But This post is NOT at all about free-will and determinism.
It is about Quantum mechanics, and Bohr, einstien and hiesenberg’s philosophical views regarding it

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