Legal or Illegal : Pornography

This is the fifth part of the series “Legal or Illegal“. Please read that article first if you want understand the base of these arguments.

Pornography today is considered as immoral and accused of increase in sex crimes in the society. It is accused of causing moral degradation of the society. Despite of all this, with the advent of the Internet, and the ease of access to porn, the debate on pornography is slowing down, but still the kitten-smother-paranoids react really harshly on the idea of having any and all sorts of porn legal.

First knee-jerk reaction you will get when you suggest that in a free society, all sorts of porn should be legal. “OMG you are going to make the whole society into America-style immoral society, with your kids ruining their lives by watching porn”.  This reaction is as long as they don’t realize that I do mean Child pornographyshould be legal in a free society. Then its totally a different case which I will deal later.

The problem with pornography is, that only really really ultra-conservative societies support banning completely, in fact they prefer that their women don’t even show themselves to other men as it might result in impure thoughts. Yeah I am talking about the middle-eastern societies. Women never allow themselves to be a center of the immoral thoughts in the mind of another man. And yeah men blow themselves up by flying big planes to buildings.

Other than these ultra-conservative societies, most of the societies allow some level of porn to exist. There are special ratings for movies, the very famous Ⓐ for adult movies in India, and the famous Ⓡ for Raunchy movies in USA. In India movies depicting full sexual intercourse and full frontal male/female nudity is illegal, although movies with Ⓐ rating can show frontal top nudity. So the bootleg porn movies which show full sexual intercourse are called “Blue Films” in India.

Even in the pre-Internet days anyone could get hold of blue films in India pretty easily. And this rarely stops anyone from selling or buying them.

In Japan, porn movies can show intercourse but cannot show male/female genitals, so usually Japanese porn movies have those parts blurred or granulated. Other countries have similar restrictions.

Only in America the constitution provides protection to any kind of porn movies(save Child Pornography) through first Amendment or the right of Free Speech. Since the America’s free speech clause states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This empowers the whole pornographic industry of America. The problem is in other countries there is literally no consistent basis for making laws regarding porn. In America the govt cannot do anything about it no matter what people want, on the other hand in countries like India and Japan, the governments makes laws restricting what people can watch in the privacy of their homes and what they can’t.

The problem is what people fail to realize that pornography is an important need of an individual, those who enjoy pornography are not better or worse than those who find enjoying pornography dispeakable. What you do in the privacy of your home should not be a business of anyone. People claiming that having legal porn means people will become more immoral, they are unable to see the logical contradiction of their argument.

If you force a person to not watch a porn, is he really being moral? Doesn’t the fact that he wanted to watch porn, itself makes him immoral? If a man wants to rape a woman, and you stop him using force, has become a saint now?

Pornography is a victim-less crime, if people are allowed to do those things in the privacy of their rooms, then its depiction on film cannot be a crime.

Now coming to Child Pornography. Child pornography should not be a crime. Now lemme make it clear, I am not promoting child pornography, nor advocating legalization of child sex abuse. I am merely saying that child pornography in itself should not be a crime, but the person must be punished for using child actors for the acts depicted in the porn medium.

Basically child sex abuse must be a crime, but child pornography should not be a crime. In America simulated child pornography is legal, that is using old actors to dress up like kids, and using computer generated pornography. Although the possession of actual child pornography is a crime.

Its true that in a society of pure liberty, possession of child pornography will not be a crime, but anyone who shot it, must have used some kid, and harmed that kid, he is the person solely guilty for it. If no kid was harmed in making that porn movie, then Objectively speaking there was no crime.

Objective Perspective: People who abuse children sexually, are undoubtedly criminals, but those people who have urges for children(which is demonstrated by the fact that they sought child pornography), but are settling down for watching child porn on their comp(which could be virtual, or historical, that is, already produced) in the privacy of their room are objectively not committing any crime. Their potential for abusing a child cannot be a ground for their incarceration or punishment.

The mere action of watching film or printed material of any kind or gratifying themselves while watching is not a crime in itself, so it cannot be punished period.

Pre-empting arguments:

  • You are sick man! - Well thanks, everybody is sick in some way or the other. Don’t tell me you never watched pornography on the Internet. Regarding child pornography, well guess what, child pornography is a multi-million dollar industry in the world. The more you try to criminalize it, the more incentive you are giving to child pornography producers. Most of the child abusers turn out to be quite affluent people. They can afford to watch child porn, wouldn’t you rather have pedophiles known out in open by their usage of child pornography so that you can keep a close eye on them.
  • Chaos! Legalizing pornography will create chaos everywhere – I am sorry but this is a de facto argument given to whatever I suggest. It comes basically because of what psychologist describe as “Fear of the unknown”. If you think legalizing prostitution will create chaos in the society, well then think again because according to psychologists you are saying that because you are unable to envision such a scenario.

28 comments for “Legal or Illegal : Pornography

  1. lp
    October 13, 2008 at 5:33 am

    well i agree with u on a lot of issues except child porn…legalizing it is like allowing people to use fur or rhino horns or tiger skin n stuff, that’s like an incentive to poachers just like the former would be to those who make child porn…

  2. October 13, 2008 at 7:16 am

    legalizing it is like allowing people to use fur or rhino horns or tiger skin n stuff

    Lets roll back a little bit. What is the problem with people using fur or Rhino Horns or Tinger Skins??

  3. gopi
    March 31, 2009 at 1:14 am

    “If no kid was harmed in making that porn movie, then Objectively speaking there was no crime” – I fail to understand how a porn movie can be made with a child actor without hurting him/her (physically or emotionally). Would you be friends with someone  today who made a porn movie of u when u were 12 and circulated it, even though he didn’t hurt you in any way? (plz mind that u were not even compensated monetarily for the services u rendered bcoz back then, u didnt even know what a ‘contract’ or ’money’ was)… and plz dont take it personally.. by “you” i mean any person – you, me, ur frnd, my frnd..

  4. renegade_division
    March 31, 2009 at 1:55 am
    I wrote “IF No kid was harmed in making a porn movie..” because there are possible cases where kids aren’t harmed in making movies. For example in UK and other European nations simulated Child pornography is illegal(though in US its not), that is if you used computer animation to create child porn(like Hentai, or Pornographic Anime). In a free society simulated child porn does not harm anyone as a direct consequence.
    Similarly in future if there are ways to create child porn without harming and kid then it should not be a crime.
    Coming to the second issue which you raised “would you be friends with someone..”, then its totally irrelevant whom I would wanna be friends with. My moral scale is MY moral scale, and I don’t subjects others with it. If you notice all the discussion in this site is about what people want to do to others, not what people do with themselves. Making child porn illegal is throwing your morality on others.
    Coming to the third issue which you raised but its deeply embedded in the post, “what would you do with someone who made your porn movie when you were 12, circulated it made money off it and didn’t pay you”.
    The question is setup in a very acute circumstances but the thing is its not a very unique situation question. What would you do with someone who made you work on his property without bothering with your consent and did not pay you? The same solution would apply the above situation.
    What would you do with someone who made a mentally retarded person have sex with him/her shot a porn movie of him and refused to pay them? Is that scenario impossible to occur in a Child-porn-is-illegal society?? 
    Sure it can happen in any modern Democracy that some person makes a porno movie with a mentally retarded person and then never pays him. So what do you do with such a person?
    The thing is, if something like that happens then whenever the case comes up for that thing, it will be dealt as a violation of the property rights of that individual, whether he was a kid when this happened or not.
    Unpretentious Diva wrote a pretty good article on this age of consent issue, read it:
    Here is a question you MUST answer and that is:
    If a pedophile(not a child molester, the difference is Child molester has molested kids, a pedophile may not necessarily have molested kids), has never harmed any kids and he only lives in his apartment away from children watching child porn(or maybe just Nickelodeon) gratifying himself, must he be punished for something??
    I mean is it not possible that he just cannot help himself and he just is naturally is attracted towards kids, but he has done that much that he never touched or will touch any kid. Answer this!
  5. gopi
    March 31, 2009 at 11:45 am

    i’ve never targetted my ire against peadophiles in any forum.i’ve got nothing against peadophiles or homosexuals as long as they dont hurt neone. and i agree wid everything in de article except for the statement i qouted in my comment above. if computer animation is used, like hentai, i do not think neone should b punished. but that happens in japan. my question concerns the use of real children in porn movies to which u replied “My moral scale is MY moral scale, and I don’t subjects others with it” – what exactly is ur moral scale. y can’t u answer a simple yes/no question wid a yes/no? wud YOU b frnds wid HIM, keeping in consideration YOUR moral scale?
    and the third issue is not set up in a unique situation.i’m no expert in this area, but my guess is as good as urs when it comes to answering this – how many children of 12-13 yrs age do u think gets paid for it? anyway, i’m happy u agreed atleast that they shud pay for violation of property rights.but then it happens only if they hav to undergo trial. who wud accuse them? the 12-13 yr old? i don’t think so….

  6. renegade_division
    March 31, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    my question concerns the use of real children in porn movies to which u replied “My moral scale is MY moral scale, and I don’t subjects others with it” – what exactly is ur moral scale

    You are creating a straw man’s argument here. You are not able to understand the intricacy of my point and thus misquoting it completely. To understand my point there are a few axioms you must follow: 1) Just because an act is very shameful on your moral scale doesn’t necessarily mean that it must be stopped at the threat of violence(or be outlawed). 2) Divide every action as an atom and then see whether that action itself is immoral or not. When considering the issue of child porn movies: 1) A person somehow makes the movie 2) Another person merely trades in it, sells it, puts it on his website 3) Another person merely watches it. The making the movie part can also divided into its individual components like shooting the movie editing it, acting in it but lets consider one person did it all. Now the question arises whether these actions are immoral in themselves or not. 1) The person who makes the movie if having performed child molestation then he is responsible for the rape of that individual 2) Person who trades it is merely exchanging money for one commodity to another, he is totally innocent in this case. Unless he steals money or steals the movie and then sells it then its a different issue. 3) Person who watches a child porn movie is again innocent in this case, because he is merely watching a movie,that’s all his action is. Watching a child porn movie is not tantamount to molesting a kid.

    y can’t u answer a simple yes/no question wid a yes/no? wud YOU b frnds wid HIM, keeping in consideration YOUR moral scale?

    I am sorry I cannot explain you this part. This is not a personal blog, but sure if you meet me in real life and wanna know more about Renegade Division I would answer that question. In reality at a personal level though I am making a pro-pornography case here, I might be totally against watching porn. I don’t do drugs nor want my kids to do drugs, but then I am not Muslim nor I want my kids to be a Muslim that doesn’t mean I must support a legislation banning Islam. Its like asking the President “Do you consider Jesus Christ as your lord Savior?”, now on a personal level he might have his own opinion, but you cannot ask that question to him as a leader of a executive branch of the govt. Similarly I don’t have to do drugs in order to support their legalization, nor I have to be friends with a pedophile in order to support their right to exist.

    i’m happy u agreed atleast that they shud pay for violation of property rights.but then it happens only if they hav to undergo trial. who wud accuse them? the 12-13 yr old? i don’t think so….

    Like they will never grow up. See its a simple thing, no child porn movie producer can exist freely in a society of pure liberty, as much as he cannot exist freely in a contemporary democratic society. If he is not hiding from the govt then he would be hiding from the people who wanna sue his ass off and punish him for entering an illegal contract. I mean that’s the only issue here right?? The only thing different from a contemporary society would be that watching and trading child pornography would be legal in such society because they themselves are not criminal actions.

  7. gopi
    March 31, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    i repeat – my ONLY concern here is that one cannot make a child porn without hurting him/her physically or emotionally at least. i AGREE that trading and watching porn wud not b criminal. i’m perfectly fine wid adults used in porn but a child cannot judge what is right or what is wrong.. of course we’ll hav to revert back to diva’s article on what the age of consent shud b; but 12 yrs is childhood, anyway u luk at it!!

  8. July 4, 2009 at 11:55 pm

    the whole article was AWESOME but didnt like this part that much:

    Objective Perspective: People who abuse children sexually, are undoubtedly criminals, but those people who have urges for children(which is demonstrated by the fact that they sought child pornography), but are settling down for watching child porn on their comp(which could be virtual, or historical, that is, already produced) in the privacy of their room are objectively not committing any crime. Their potential for abusing a child cannot be a ground for their incarceration or punishment.
    The mere action of watching film or printed material of any kind or gratifying themselves while watching is not a crime in itself, so it cannot be punished period.

     
    well in my book watching child porn is a crime….its just plain wrong. though i’ve stumbled across it in the internet but i’ve never watched it intentionally.
     
    about the legalizing prostitution…im a supporter. I read this statistic somewhere that if prostitution and porn is made legal then the percentage of sexual abuse and harassment decreases considerably.

  9. Amitanand
    November 14, 2009 at 6:06 pm

    I enjoy reading your articles, and do agree with your points. But, I don’t think that there is much the government can do about such things.

    There are a lot of crimes in which it is impossible to (a) prove weather or not a party is at fault, or (b) for such a party/individual to stop committing the crime — even if he wanted to.

    For example, Drunken driving by itself causes no harm to others. Unless, ofcourse the drunk person kills somebody. It can be argued that even if the drunk person kills somebody, he has probably not done it intentionally, but was just buzzed enough to not be able to react in time.

    A similar case can be created for driving within speed limits, etc.

    The point I am trying to make is that for some issues, prevention is the only solution.

    And, if such preventive measures are to be enforced by an external person/entity other than oneself — it has to be based upon something that can be externally seen/proved.

    Weather or not you have more than 0.08% alcohol can be easily verified. Weather or not you are sober enough can’t.

    Weather or not you are speeding can be checked. Weather or not you are in control of the vehicle cannot.

    Similarly, with some middle-eastern societies, weather or not an un-related couple is seen in public can be verified. Weather or not they are involved in something immoral (as per the definitions of their society) cannot.

    Weather or not somebody is in possession of child porn can be checked. Weather or not he will exploit a child, if he comes in contact with one, cannot.

  10. Amitanand
    November 14, 2009 at 6:10 pm

    Dear author,
    The formatting for my previous comment was totally lost.

    Is there a way to tell the website to not ignore blank lines?

    Editor: You can use <br> tags. Although our CSS formatting will eliminate any extra lines(so you cannot put double newlines).

  11. Thebaboose
    November 30, 2009 at 8:41 am

    Good article renegade_division.

    I have a question:

    A person who hired a hitman (planned the death of another person) would be charged of a crime right? Because hiring a hitman is an action?

    While a person who planned how they would murder another person, in their mind, would not be charged of a crime right (thought crime is not a crime?

    Looking forward to your response to Amitanand question as well.

  12. KrZ
    December 14, 2009 at 4:57 pm

    Something a large number of people fail to notice is that rape videos are entirely legal, and there is a thriving market for “rape porn” with varying degrees of realism. However, you can scour the net for weeks and never turn up a video of an actual rape.

    Clearly, there are sociopaths out there with an extreme sexual fascination with the idea of rape. They are desirous of such videos, and would probably pay for videos depicting actual rape. However, no such videos exist, and the market is entirely dominated by staged rape videos.

    So here we have a case where (1) there is a market demand for pornography depicting an illegal act and (2) because the underlying act is still EXTREMELY illegal, no such pornography exists in the wild. This is exactly the same case as with pedophilia. Legalizing the possession of child pornography is not going to spur the child rape industry any more than the legality of rape porn has spurred the rape industry.

    Another point one should make in this case is also the out-of-hand nature of the prosecution for possession of child pornography. I read a lot of technology blogs and consider myself quite knowledgeable, but I am by no means any form of elite hacker. However, I have read about 2 important things, (1) Darknets – Fully anonymous networks that anyone can connect to where all traffic is heavily encrypted end-to-end and (2) WPA/WEP password cracking software.

    Let’s say I don’t like my neighbor for whatever reason, maybe his dog is always barking. Well, he has wifi, and I can see it from my house, but it’s password protected. So I buy a specific type of wifi card, load up my password cracking software, and after a week or two, I get the password to his network. Like most people his home computers are probably being shared over the internal wifi network. Now that I have access to his network I can easily gain access to his shared folders, and with a bit of skill I can gain access to all his drives. All I have to do now is connect to one of these darknets, download some child pornography, and load it onto my neighbors computer. I drive to a pay phone, call the police, tell them I’m an acquaintance of his and was using his computer when I saw child porn on the machine in X directory.

    Now, the law enforcement agents will get a warrant, bust down his door, and he will go to prison for a very long time. There is absolutely no defense against this. Even people who have been caught with OPEN WIFI NETWORKS, living in dense apart complexes, have been prevented from using the “someone stuck it on there” defense. With a closed network, a defense attorney wouldn’t even consider using this defense.

    So, as the laws stand now, I or anyone else with a drop of tech savvy can drive around town picking off and ruining the lives of anyone with a wifi network who pisses me off. Maybe I could just do it for fun, they excitement of seeing the poor targets in the paper.

    This situation is ridiculous and the disparity between law enforcement’s understanding of technology and that of a high school student is so huge that given the current legal system there is absolutely no hope of eliminating this threat.

  13. blue
    December 29, 2009 at 12:22 am

    u crazy man!!!!!!!!!!are u out of ur mind

  14. Anon
    February 15, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    to renegade_division:
    “The truth is, its an irrational viewpoint that people who watch child porn are criminals.The only reason why you think that way because you are enraged by the idea of someone enjoying child pornography. ”

    People who watch child porn are criminals. This is an objective standpoint. What you said is subjective.

    From the article you mentioned child pornography movies where “old actors to dress up like kids, and using computer generated pornography.” If you mean people watching that is not criminal then I guess not, it’s freaky sliding scale morality attached to it but the actors themselves are (hopefully consenting) adults.

    But if it is reference to the porn that is unfortunately so prevalent on the net and uses children in horrific ways that impact on THE CHILDREN’S LIBERTY then yes, those people who watch it in the privacy of their own homes are criminals. Just because it is in their own home does not mean to preserve the pedophiles liberty, they should not be punished. Pure liberty, as you keep referring to, would mean the children are also taken into consideration when those people watch and take pleasure from seeing children (who are treated in disgusting, degrading ways with barely any understanding of what is going on) in sexually explicit scenarios.

    There is a big difference between the child porn pedophiles watch and movies like Hostel or kill Bill. Also, how do you know watching it is not leading to something more sinister and potentially dangerous? Because they say so or you’re psychic? By watching it they are actual criminals because they are participating in a wider crime. They are the demand portion of the supply/demand business of child pornography and are aiding the suppliers by taking an ACTIVE interest. By criminalizing them they can be monitored, although it would then depend on how good the system is that monitors them.

    Just because somebody just watches and does not rape (reference to your comment about Japan), or behead (Iraq) or sexually harm a child does not make them thought criminals. Anybody is capable of turning fantasy into reality.

    I just reread your article and your comments in response to people and there are way too many things to well frankly correct you on. I agree with ‘blue’ you’re out of your mind.

    Pornography with consenting adults as movies that are made in the same way the mainstream movies are like hostel and kill bill, there is no problem with that. It is just another movie. But the issues surrounding child porn…
    Criminalising it will not give incentive to produce more, watching it does. And one does not have to criminalise it for those people to know who wants to see child pornography, they know, they have their contacts etc. Child pornography is a multi-million dollar industry in the world, dumb***, because they are getting away with using children in such a fashion.

  15. Renegade Division
    February 15, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    People who watch child porn are criminals. This is an objective standpoint. What you said is subjective.

    No objectively the action of watching a bunch of images streaming one after the other is not an act of aggression on anybody. IF it is then any act of watching movie would be aggression.
    Even if you don’t wanna go that far(but wanna engage in the objective/subjective debate) then you watching rape videos(there is a huge market out there for rape videos), or not just that, you watching NEWS, or a clip say Rodney King’s brutal beating is a crime(he wasn’t consenting to be beaten up), you watching war footage is a crime, you watching riot footage is a crime, because if you are aggressing against children by watching child porn, then you are committing aggression by watching video of any real world aggression.

    If you are consistent enough then you would apply your theory consistently. Make ‘World’s most dangerous police videos’ illegal. Make biographies about real world criminals illegal. Newspapers must also be illegal because poor people are being aggressed upon and you are reading about it, thereby creating a demand for more crime.

    Look I am not saying that using children for making porn is not wrong or aggression(but I wouldn’t really blame you considering 9 out of 10 people who read this article assume the same, they willfully ignore what I wrote). MAKING CHILD PORN USING CHILDREN IS WRONG, but the act of watching a child porn is not, the act of filming is not, the act of burning it on CDs or distributing it or trading in it is not.

    There is a big difference between the child porn pedophiles watch and movies like Hostel or kill Bill. Also, how do you know watching it is not leading to something more sinister and potentially dangerous?

    Its a shame that you earlier talked about objective and subjective viewpoint, clearly you have absolutely no idea what those terms mean.
    Objectively speaking either committing an action is a crime or its not a crime, the results thing, and those leads to a crime are not crime.

    Thinking about a crime is not a crime.

    Call me all the names you want, but just letting you know, you have stumbled upon something which you have never heard before or you live in a society where even talking about it is the biggest crime ever, that’s why you find me so ‘out of my mind’. The fact is Child porn is literally the biggest weapon in the hands of the government. Even writing about it like this here, puts my ass on the line. Judges can issue warrants to have my comp searched based on this article, feds come breaking my door down and I am done for good.

    There is this story of an ex-marine whose computer was found having a folder with 3000 porn images with about 60 of them being child porn, its ISP reported him to the cops, and feds came bursting in. He says he has no idea of how those images came to his computer(honestly speaking I believe him, pedophiles don’t keep only 2% as child porn), in fact if you have ever talked to a pedophile, they don’t even need child porn to get off, Sears catalog is good enough for them.

    I mean let me ask you this simple question Anon, what do you think is the solution for men who find pre-pubescent children sexually attractive?

    Do you think there is any difference between two pedophiles, one who constantly preys upon children and other who has vowed to never harm any children but to off himself from simulated child porn, even real child porn(when I say that its a heavy stress on the part that he has never harmed any kid and never will, but he would watch child porn)?

    Do you think it is possible to have a society where a man who works in office, has a wife, a sub urban house, but finds children sexually attractive, and gratifies himself only with porn, or role play, or goes to special clubs where adult women who look really young strip? I mean he is a well known man, and parents wouldn’t leave their kids with him, but he promises to not harm any kids, in return he gets to keep his life, job, be open about his desires.

    I mean take a look at Homosexuals, what did they do before they started coming out? What do they do now in countries where homosexuality is still illegal? Do they not live without ever having sex with another person of same sex? Even those who do they do it with other consenting adults. I am not comparing homosexuals and pedophiles, but merely pointing it out that homosexuality had the same status(or even has the same status) as child porn now, historically.

    The question you should think about is, if there is some person who finds children sexual attractive, what options do you wanna present to him? Currently, its just ‘you shall never speak about it, and never think about it’. How is that working out for the society? Does that ever work?

    Child pornography is a multi-million dollar industry in the world, dumb***, because they are getting away with using children in such a fashion.

    You do realize that child pornography is not legal in any country in the world? So how the hell are they getting away with that? You mean to say laws do not prevent anything from happening? Then you call me out of my mind when you yourself talk crazy stuff like that.

    The reason why child pornography is a multi-billion dollar industry because of the attempts made to shift the supply curve inwards don’t really affect the demand. Child porn is merely information, and one pedophiles gets it, he can easily supply and copy it to others easily. And because pedophiles cannot really come out of the closet and try to do something about their issue in open, they will always try to hide themselves. So you will always live in this fear of not being able to trust anyone in the society, and the real people who have the ability to harm your kids, be still manage to harm them.

    Anon, you speak exactly how every other non-molested person speak, full of rhetoric. If you were barely touched, or someone you know was molested, you go take part in rallies against molestation and join support groups etc etc. But if you were totally wrecked by it, you just have way too many problems to worry about anything else but yourself. All your phony anger against pedophiles is just baseless, because all the child sex abuse victims can tell you something, child porn in no way is same as actual child abuse.

  16. Anon
    February 17, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    “you speak exactly how every other non-molested person speak”
    First off that is one hell of an assumption

    “If you were barely touched, or someone you know was molested, you go take part in rallies against molestation and join support groups etc etc. But if you were totally wrecked by it, you just have way too many problems to worry about anything else but yourself.”
    Second, that is not true. I know many people who were horribly abused as a child actively taking part in trying to stop it or help others. Some people are totally wrecked to not be able to worry about anything else, but that depends on the individuals and the circumstances they were in and are in.

    “All your phony anger against pedophiles is just baseless”
    Seriously? Phony anger, huh?

    “all the child sex abuse victims can tell you something, child porn in no way is same as actual child abuse.”
    That is just plain laughable, my dear, if child sex abuse victims actually say that child porn is in no way the same as actual child abuse. I guess all those organizations putting all that effort in capturing/finding those who film, burn it on CDs or distribute it or trade in it are wasting their time. If you don’t think it’s the same, then fine but come on! all the child sex abuse victims.

    (See, no name calling…)

  17. asdf
    March 4, 2010 at 11:56 pm

    Actually that is exactly what I wanted to say abot porn. You have spoken far clearer than I could ever hoped to do.

    I would like to add that pornography might actually prevent crime(see link). The desire that is the part of definition of a human such as hunger, thirst, curiousity, and desire for lust should not be suppressed or oppressed but be exercised in a harmless manner. Providing harmless outlet is an only healthy solution. Like what paintball is to shooting people, what movie is to desire for romantic adventure, and what rock music is for hatred of the establishment.

    Is this an similar issue to legalizing drug? since the only victim/perpetrator is yourself?

    http://homepage3.nifty.com/hirorin/loli03.htm
    proportional relationship of cencorship to crime rate in japan.

  18. peter
    March 15, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    i’m certainly not the best spokesperson considering my lack of insight on the topic but i would say that no child willingly wants to be filmed and involved in sexual acts before puberty, and the forcing or deception done to make children do this is certainly illegal. i think i would have to say that it has to be made illegal because the more difficult it is to view the more discouraged child porn makers will be to create it, certainly some people will be falsely accused but it is a perversion that is harmful to the innocent and whether the viewer has good intentions of not harming children or not he is still doing so by encouraging child porn makers to make more porn. that’s just my opinion but the way i see it, being a religious person, i find pornography destructive in all of its forms. sure its a choice whether or not some one sees it as wrong but it destroys families and causes suffering. eliminating it would be impossible and a lot of short term damage would be done but honestly it undermines our society it promotes infidelity which attacks the family structure which is the building blocks of good strong individuals. im certian im going to get a lot of flack for this but im willing to hear your opinions because i know i have a limited view of the topic.

  19. Alex Bazoka
    April 8, 2010 at 5:39 am

    I do not agree with you at all. Objectively all porn is illegal and wrong. Sex should always be in the context of love and marriage. Anything outside is breaking both the law of man and above all the law of God.

    That said, we must know that humans are sinful and have broken the law of God. As such there will always be pornography and prostitution…on this side of the world. Now does that mean that it is not wrong? Oh yes it is. The only thing we can do on individual level is to turn to Christ and seek his grace and say no to porn or prostitution. It also means to be in relationships where we are accountable and mutually benefit. Sex should happen in relationship of marriage. If one or both the partners have an inclination to porn they should seek help and must be caring towards one another to mature together.

    One spouse cannot hate the other because of porn but must rather love and the other to grow up and face love and life.

  20. samuel welsh
    May 24, 2010 at 11:19 pm

    porn is gross and dangerous.
    ban it ,help its victums and peanlise the companies and people who profit from it.

  21. avinashn
    September 21, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    so here what is the discussion can this leads to results anywhere..should v leave this guys to themselves..????
    whatever ???

  22. July 9, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    If my problem was a Death Star, this article is a photon toredpo.

  23. Jazmyne B. Eréce
    August 15, 2011 at 5:22 am

    Okay, somebody said something about child pornography being a “multi- million dollar” industry – can this industry afford the cost of the innocent lives taken and ruined through rape, molestation, STD’s, some divorces taking place because of adultery. Gays, lesbians, orgies/ group sex/ dorm-cest, etc., all because of porn? I don’t think so, you couldn’t afford it then, you can’t afford it now!!!!!

  24. samuel welsh
    September 5, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    japan needs to burn this horrid materal

  25. Renju Paul
    November 6, 2011 at 11:53 pm

    We Indians dont want pronography and any sex related things that harm our society.

    ONE WAY

    India government should pass a law that “ISP’s should block all such sites other wise company officials in jail they cant come out in any way”.So our peoples in India cant reach that stupid resources over internet.

    Arresting the people who watch pronography is not good idea, if good then police in India should arrest more that 40% of peoples and put all them to jail.For accomodate this large number of people Government should pass a multibillion dollar plan to build large number of jails.

  26. Derp
    December 13, 2011 at 5:13 am

    Renegade I agree with your logic, but I can’t agree with legalizing child porn. Would these pedophiles be satisfied with watching just simulations? I’ve watched regular adult porn with adult actors, but if they were to make it illegal and switched everything to animation and CGI it wouldn’t be as… effective?:D Anyways my point is that eventually these pedophiles would go and start seeking the real footage, just as if regular porn was banned people would seek out real stuff.
    As for your example about violence on news, it’s true society has a tenacity for violence and doing wrong; we can’t live without it, it’s too exciting it’s what makes the world go round in some aspects(sad but true). But here’s what I think. Someone might be walking next to me thinking “I think it be fun to stab a bitch, Yeaah maybe next week…” I’d never know unless he did something. Same thing with a pedophile walking the down street he’d be thinking, “I’d sure like rape some little boys right about now..” I’d never know. Right? Except the latter isn’t targeting me and the rest of the world but instead he’s strictly going after helpless little children… As long as they target the weak they should have unequal rights.
    The serial killer could be targeting just children also.. but if he kills them then they suffer the same fate as any adult. The adult that got raped will endure because they understand the world as being dirty and violent, the child was going to learn that eventually, but ended up learning too soon and never got to fully enjoy his childhood…
    That’s my 2 cents.

  27. samuel welsh
    January 6, 2012 at 9:59 am

    japan and all countries should ban porn its very evil, have faithful relationships instead.

  28. renegade_division
    July 5, 2009 at 1:39 am

    @kensin said:

    well in my book watching child porn is a crime….its just plain wrong.

    Watching child porn is a thought crime, if anything. What other thought crimes are we willing to prosecute from an objective viewpoint?
    Lets say if someone likes to watch rape porn(which are produced in mass quantity in Japan), should we punish him even if he never in his lifetime commits a rape?
    What if someone enjoys to watch beheading videos from Iraq? Do you think we should prosecute them, because anyone enjoying the beheading videos is just plain wrong.

    What about someone who likes violent movies. I mean all guys enjoy action flicks. Don’t you think Quinton Torontino (director of Kill Bill), must be having a real sick twisted mind to produce movies like that? How about anyone who watches ‘Hostel’ all the way to the end?

    Are you getting where am I going with all this? The truth is, its an irrational viewpoint that people who watch child porn are criminals. The only reason why you think that way because you are enraged by the idea of someone enjoying child pornography.

    A rational approach would either consider all the thought criminals as real criminals, or someone who considers none of the thought criminals as real criminals.

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